
UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-moon
Recorded: May 29, 2009  Posted: May 30

pampl wrote on 05/30/2009 at 10:26 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
I don't agree with Matt Lee when he says the government needs to be held to higher standards. There were two groups battling for control, and one of them had been running a stable and only moderately oppressive government. They had been more successful in bringing good to Sri Lanka so they had more leeway to work with. The Tamil Tiger's violence was illegitimate to start with so they had to exercise more restraint to show themselves more worthy of being able to lead. Gandhi and his followers proved the justness of India's claims to self governance by choosing peace over oppression. Prabhakaran proved that he was willing to be far more vicious and amoral than the government just to capture a slice of its power.
That being said, I'm grateful to Lee for his report on Sri Lanka and I'm really scared that it'll turn out to be as bad as it looked to him. The government wouldn't have kept the press out unless they wanted to hide what was going on...
Still, though, as a principle when a group of people
Wonderment wrote on 06/01/2009 at 02:41 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
Another great discussion. I really appreciated Mark and Matt grappling with the paradox of sending humanitarian aid to people running concentration camps whose purpose in setting up the camps is nefarious -- either to further oppress the rounded-up victims or to blackmail the international community.
I agree with Mark that you have to send the aid anyway and ask the questions later. But it's another example of why it's essential to work on the problems decades before they become immense crises, go terminally dysfunctional and leave few, if any, good options.
Thanks for trying to keep Sri Lanka on people's minds.
bjkeefe wrote on 06/01/2009 at 03:35 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
Quoting Wonderment: Another great discussion. I really appreciated Mark and Matt grappling with the paradox of sending humanitarian aid to people running concentration camps whose purpose in setting up the camps is nefarious -- either to further oppress the rounded-up victims or to blackmail the international community.
I agree with Mark that you have to send the aid anyway and ask the questions later. But it's another example of why it's essential to work on the problems decades before they become immense crises, go terminally dysfunctional and leave few, if any, good options.
Thanks for trying to keep Sri Lanka on people's minds. Can't add anything to that, except: I agree with all of it. Well said.
Lyle wrote on 06/01/2009 at 09:05 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
I'll disagree with what you said. Sri Lanka is Sri Lanka and the government there is going to do what it has to do to. No doubt they have and will continue to commit wicked acts, but they are effectively making their country a better place by terminating the Tamil Tigers. Yes, the Tamil minorities are having a crisis, but what else could have happened? The Tamils didn't go the Ghandi route, they went the Osama bin "We blow you up" route.
Humanity is cruel and horrible at times. Much of the world is no where near the quality of life standards of the West. They need some leeway to take care of their own internal problems.
I also think, and this is directed and Goldberg and Lee (Goldberg especially), that it is beyond hypocritical and smug to suggest that after doing absolutely nothing to involve itself in the conflict the international community should now sanction and shame the Sri Lankan government. It's like the international community patting itself on the back for arresting Rwadan nuns in Europe and then putting them on trial (so bleeding heart
Wonderment wrote on 06/01/2009 at 09:26 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
I'll disagree with what you said. Sri Lanka is Sri Lanka and the government there is going to do what it has to do to. No doubt they have and will continue to commit wicked acts, but they are effectively making their country a better place by terminating the Tamil Tigers. Yes, the Tamil minorities are having a crisis, but what else could have happened? The Tamils didn't go the Ghandi route, they went the Osama bin "We blow you up" route.
Humanity is cruel and horrible at times. Much of the world is no where near the quality of life standards of the West. They need some leeway to take care of their own internal problems. Are you saying that no one should be concerned about the loss of civilian life in Sri Lanka? That the rest of the world should look at the corpses and the camps and just assume good faith and good governance?
The UN responsibility to protect civilians and governments' responsibility to obey international law evolved due largely to genocide in the West with the "quality of life standards" you laud.
It is the
Lyle wrote on 06/01/2009 at 09:40 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
First off, a genocide is not taking place in Sri Lanka. A really brutal conflict just happened/is happening. If the Sri Lanka government and the ethnic majority there go on to commit a genocide they should be held accountable.
However, war is awful. War means killing, mutilation, rape, torture, trauma and whatever else. Yes, the world should take note and pay attention to what is going on. The world should not allow the Sri Lankan government to commit genocide. However, the world didn't really do a hell of a lot over the last 30 years to stop the Tamil Tigers and the Sri Lankan government from having out their fight. Some diplomats dabbled a bit here and there, the U.S. and others labeled the Tamils naughty little boys and girls, and all while virtually having no interests whatsoever in whatever was going on, other than being sickened by the violence and butchering of innocents.
It's not about not caring or not paying attention, it about recognizing our humanity and understanding that violence is a part of our humanity. Cruelty is a part of humanity. Germans genocided Jews and others and that was very bad. American GIs killed
Zebe wrote on 06/02/2009 at 03:46 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
Sri Lankan Tamils Need a Voice Inside Sri Lanka!
The current Singhalese Sri Lankan government have clearly led the country to perpetrate genocide on a vulnerable minority population with genuine legitimacy in the northern and eastern part of Sri Lanka. What country will commit genocide on its OWN people! Similar situation have occurred in past and recent history however, in contrast to recent genocides which have occurred, the national and international communities did not (want to?) react. Indeed, it is emerging that during the facts, the UN as well as countries with access to satellite imagery were aware of the bombing of civilian populations. The reason for this indifference eludes me; the LTTE’s past terrorist actions does not justify the lack of international interest and especially the lack of involvement of the UN and its agencies. This lack of international involvement is even more inexplicable considering that the conflict officially ended on 19 May 2009.
The international community should ask itself the following questions, do we want a Sri Lankan government in the region which believes that the Sri Lanka Tamil population has no say in national matters? What
Lyle wrote on 06/02/2009 at 06:31 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
Another North Korea? The Sri Lankan government has control of the whole island now. There won't be any kind of UN partition of the island. The Tamils are just going to have to be the minority people in Sri Lanka, and learn to live this way in a democratic and peaceful way.
It's sad, but Sri Lanka just isn't that important. It's even less important thanks to the Tamil Tigers who brought violence upon themselves, Sri Lanka and their own Tamil people. At best sanctions will be levied against the Sri Lankan government. If a full scale genocide happens, then Sri Lanka will get the Sudan treatment (nastier speeches and nastier letters, threats of arrests, definite sanctions of some kind).
That's what you are going to get from the international community. It is more important that the Tamils now decide to go contra to the LTTE and now go the Ghandi route. If you do this, the world will take note and respect you, and be on your side if your rights and lives are threatened. If you don't, and you continue to fight... frankly, the world will give a damn what happens to
wonderboy wrote on 06/05/2009 at 10:00 AM
Re: UN Plaza: Singing to Ban Ki-Moon (Mark Leon Goldberg & Matthew Lee)
Excellent discussion. Just registered on this site and bookmarked it.
It will be very interesting to watch the Sri Lankan - tamil conflict in future.
great points by Matt.

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