Yes once again Mr. Wilkinson has reminded me why I generally don't watch his diavlogs anymore. But I've got to admit that I as I grow older I find myself jealous of Mr. Wilkinson's every time I have to have a colonoscopy and think that he has his head so far up his posterior he can self diagnose.

Quoting piscivorous: Yes once again Mr. Wilkinson has reminded me why I generally don't watch his diavlogs anymore. But I've got to admit that I as I grow older I find myself jealous of Mr. Wilkinson's every time I have to have a colonoscopy and think that he has his head so far up his posterior he can self diagnose.

Not kind, but hilarious.

Quoting claymisher: And that's why they're called glibertarians:

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/133...0&out=00:04:10

Keep fighting the war on straw, Will!

That snippet, free of context, okay. But it seemed to me more that Will was using that caricature as a lead in for his serious question. I thought Will generally deserves credit for coming up with some good questions that raised challenges to Bob's ideas, since it's clear that he is predisposed to agree with lot of Bob's thinking. Overall, I thought this was quite a good diavlog. The beginning was a little tedious with the self-congratulations -- rah, capitalism, rah! USA! USA! USA! -- but once the wonkery started rolling, it got a lot better. Obviously, I'm one of those liberals who drinks of the liberaltarian Kool-Aid, so of course I was predisposed to think well of a lot of Bob's ideas, too. Biggest quibble: When bankruptcy-as-good was being discussed, I would have appreciated at least a nod to the recent "reforms" to the bankruptcy laws that have really hurt the most vulnerable people in our society. I grant that entrepreneurs are the ones who are going to have the best shot at creating more jobs, and therefore should be encouraged not to play things too safe, but it's really pretty sickening

Quoting piscivorous: Yes once again Mr. Wilkinson has reminded me why I generally don't watch his diavlogs anymore. But I've got to admit that I as I grow older I find myself jealous of Mr. Wilkinson's every time I have to have a colonoscopy and think that he has his head so far up his posterior he can self diagnose.

I dunno. With a comment like that, I think there's a pretty good chance that you could see your polyps just by opening your eyes.

Quoting piscivorous: But I've got to admit that I as I grow older I find myself jealous of Mr. Wilkinson's every time I have to have a colonoscopy and think that he has his head so far up his posterior he can self diagnose.

A bit vicious, but you do get the point across. I've got to ask though, what exactly was so offensive to you? Even though I am sympathetic to Will and Robert's views on health care and especially education I wonder if they acknowledge two things:
(1) the emotional distress (that could fuel political distress) that would arise (among large segments of the populace) if their vision of ideal education/health markets were implemented too quickly or without a very large majority opinion backing. That is, a 51/49 demographic split in their favor is insufficient; and
(2) the often unspoken but real covenant that exists between generations that allows the very young and old to rely upon the young-adult/middle-aged adult to be the productive member of society. On the idea of perpetual growth - little is said of scarcity. The real (and dramatic) rise in commodity prices, especially energy prices, is not due to health care costs. Rather, scarcity rents are

It's just my general opinion of Mr Wilkinson. He's smart, he's articulate but he is clueless.

Interesting ideas on immigration. We do need some "out of the box" dialog on that one. It's such a touchy and convoluted subject I enjoyed their take on it. Living in a lower income area the public schools are like they say: "bad." The elementary ones are Ok but all the middle and high schools are failing "No Child Left Behind." Also, the local junior college I read today is under some kind of academic probation. Go figure! John

Hey Will, Robert-- you guys know that question begging is a bad thing, right?

Quoting Freddie: Hey Will, Robert-- you guys know that question begging is a bad thing, right?

Hey, Freddie -- you know giving examples is a good thing, right?

As often as you like to hurl insult and innuendo I would think that you could at least come up with something original. Instead you riff and pat yourself on the back.

Complaining and complaining that there are no prices in health care, Will fails to note the obvious. In a single payer system there are prices! The single payer knows the prices quite well, and in most systems will only pay so much for a procedure or drug. Believe it or not, that keeps prices down pretty effectively. The idea that an individual with an inflamed appendix should shop around is absurd.

Obviously, I'm one of those liberals who drinks of the liberaltarian Kool-Aid, so of course I was predisposed to think well of a lot of Bob's ideas, too.

Me too. I love Will's programs. It's interesting that although Libertarians are often associated with Republicans, Go12ers like us like Will, while Psivorous hates him. What's your explanation?

Now I understand both yours and bjkeefe misuse of the word hate. You have both had it so easy in life that you have no conception of what the word hate actually implies so it it really has no meaning or value to either of you. My you always remain so ignorant it refreshing to see such innocence in anyone over 7 or 8.

Quoting Tom Wittmann: The idea that an individual with an inflamed appendix should shop around is absurd.

It's true. I know a few people who research the doctors who are going to operate on their bodies, but they are obviously crazy because all doctors charge the same amount and are equally skilled. :l

I think you missed his point; the aliment was appendicitis which is often discovered at a point in time at which taking the time to shop for the best or cheapest surgery would probably prove fatal.

Quoting piscivorous: I think you missed his point; the aliment was appendicitis which is often discovered at a point in time at which taking the time to shop for the best or cheapest surgery would probably prove fatal.

Even given how crabby you are today, pisc, it's hard to believe you, like Tom, couldn't see that Will was kidding there.

Actually I didn't make it that far and was only commenting on the specific idea of shopping around for a doctor to have an appendectomy.

Quoting piscivorous: Actually I didn't make it that far and was only commenting on the specific idea of shopping around for a doctor to have an appendectomy.

OIC. Well, it's clear from the context that he was just being his usual let-me-give-the-most-vivid-and-ridiculous-example-that-I-can self. I have a vague memory that he used eating babies or something like that as an example in a recent discussion on morality, too. I think this may stem from him playing with the impression that libertarians are often viewed as heartless. Or, he may just like sick jokes.

Will is really becoming an excellent interviewer. Probably his greatest quality is clarity. He's really straightforward at drawing out the ideas of his interviewees and posing devil's advocate questions. Above all he gives people space to speak. I'd like to see him mix in some people he disagrees with. It'll further test him as an interviewer and add more dramatic tension.

I watch Free Will quite a bit. The variety and the nature of his topics are generally in line with my interests. He does annoy me when I want to hear the opinion of the other head, usually an expert of some sort, and Will grabs too much air time for his opinions/comments. I thought the breadth of topics in this diavlog was great. Here are a few of my own thoughts. Growth: Seems to make sense that growth is necessary but I always come back to the crispy fried earth argument that Will alluded to. Growth cannot continue forever with finite resources unless we can be infinitely productive with them. I can't imagine how a no growth society can work though ... I'd love to hear that discussed. Growth first of all needs to be specified to be growth in per capita GNP so thinning out the population while keeping output steady counts as growth in my book. Follow that to it's conclusion and you're left with one guy (or girl) producing everything that is produced today for 6.5 billion or so people. Health: Discussion generally on target. I liked a discussion about the

I wish instead of talking about growth (and listening to the evil "Club for Growth") we talked about productivity. People understand productivity. Productivity is as simple as a paperboy finding a more efficient route through the neighborhood. But no, the growth pushers want you to think it's captains of industry slashing wages, burning more oil, or privatizing Social Security. Basically whatever's good for our plutocratic overlords. If anyone is against growth, it's because those bastards have redefined it as being something horrible.

The libertarian view of health care just seems fantastical to me. If my doctor recommends that I get an MRI scan, how am I supposed to know if that is a cost-efficient use of my health care dollars? And Will's example of shopping around for an appendectomy: while I know he just pulled the example out of the air, an appendectomy is often something that needs to be dealt with ASAP; there won't be time to be searching the Internet and trying to determine if some doctor's prices are low because he's efficient or because he's a quack. And as I metioned recently in a Megan McArdle diavlog, can someone extolling a market-based approach explain to me why the universal health coverage in other industrial countries provides 1) better outcomes (in lifespan, infant mortality, etc.); 2) lower overall costs; 3) lower adminstrative costs; and 4) greater patient satisfaction. See here for a nice overview of the issue.

School Incentives/Charter Schools: An interesting article I read in Reason Magazine about a "new breed" of Catholic schools: Earning Their Keep The idea behind the school is that, to fund the school itself and pay for their tuition, the low-income students work paid internships for local corporations, law practices and what have you. I would think that this would increase the value of the education by putting a higher price on it, albeit one that the student can actually pay, and working for it makes it more valuable to the student. An added side-effect is that, through working in corporate America, low income students get to see what their lives could be like if they graduated high school and perhaps attended college.

Quoting claymisher: And that's why they're called glibertarians:

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/133...0&out=00:04:10

Keep fighting the war on straw, Will!

Keep fighting the war on satirical hyperbole, Clay!

In Japan, (1) I do think it is self-defeating to try to implement a set of reforms that the public will resist. There needs to be a great deal of education before well-functioning markets in education and health services are really feasible. (2) I think a lot about intergenerational justice, which is one reason I want the kinds of markets that best guarantee quality education for the young and a comfortable retirement and quality affordable health care for the old. It would be fun to do an episode on sustainable growth. My position in short: (a) energy is not scarce; the historically most efficient sources (oil, coal, etc.) are; (b) a well-functioning price system will shift energy consumption to alternative energy sources as prices for historical extracted sources of energy rise; (c) the initial high price of alternative energy will temporarily slow growth, but competition and technological progress will eventually push prices below the historical trend and even asymptotically approach zero, much increasing average rates of growth; (d) environmental quality is a global public good, and (e) this is most likely to be secured as a consequence of growth -- as a consequence of the technological innovation that

Quoting claymisher: I wish instead of talking about growth (and listening to the evil "Club for Growth") we talked about productivity.

Growth seems mandatory to me and productivity is the best, if not the only legitimate, source of growth. So, what sounds like a good number ... 2% per year? In a 1000 years, the world economy needs to be 400 million times bigger than it is today if the population is held constant. Cut the population by 1000x and it still requires a 400 thousand x gain in output. Such is the beauty of compounded growth. Ponder that (the output and the consumption) and then discuss. I do and I want to discuss how to create a 0 growth economy. BTW, I can already get my paper in a few key presses and speeding it up 400M times doesn't count.

Quoting claymisher: I wish instead of talking about growth (and listening to the evil "Club for Growth") we talked about productivity. People understand productivity. Productivity is as simple as a paperboy finding a more efficient route through the neighborhood.

But no, the growth pushers want you to think it's captains of industry slashing wages, burning more oil, or privatizing Social Security. Basically whatever's good for our plutocratic overlords. If anyone is against growth, it's because those bastards have redefined it as being something horrible.

claymisher: Did you listen to this diavlog? It seemed to me that productivity was discussed a fair amount. In Robert's thesis, increased productivity is one of the principal ways to achieve economic growth. Besides, if we already understand productivity, what's the point in having a diavlog about it? (Semi-kidding.) I do share your emotions about the way growth is portrayed by spin tanks like the CFG and many of the business rags, not to mention how short-term growth is too often achieved by heartless CEOs. Also, I have to admit to a core feeling that won't go away, that wonders if it is not possible to be a little less obsessed with growth and a little

If wage suppression is the only solution to growth then there is no good growth. We do not have a shortage of engineers, we have a shortage of engineers that will work for third world wages.

wow- Will's thoughts about how health care should look like are incredibly the opposite of how I'd like it to be. He's essentially hoping for what I see as a dystopia. His approach essentially guarantees that people chronic health conditions will necessarily lead short, poverty-ridden lives, unless they're lucky enough to have wealthy relatives. The notion that people with (say) Crohn's disease or aspberger's syndrome will have to pay exorbitant premiums to receive any coverage at all is just crazy, or at least immoral. I'm usually a fan of Will, although I rarely agree with him, but this is odious. People with inflamed appendixes don't have TIME to shop around. And most people will NEVER understand how to assess the quality or value of the medical care they receive. We aren't talking about deciding whether to eat at TGI Friday's vs. Applebees. We're talking about decisions that are irreversible and life changing, if not ending. On the bright side, I suppose, such a healthcare system would make evolution work the way it's "supposed to" work in that it will so drastically shorten so many lives of so many "inferior" people.

Miceelf, I think you misapprehend Will's desire for real insurance markets (which, granted, wasn't detailed all that well). The point with respect to real pricing by insurance companies is that under the current system, as result of regulations on how insurance is priced and offered, you have the insurance system being used as a mode of redistribution from the healthy to the sick. This is both a very inefficient means of redistribution (e.g. why should the rich and sick get the benefit of redistribution from the poor and healthy) and one that creates other market inefficiencies (e.g. it introduces incentives for people to stay with larger employers). I suspect if this subject were explored in more depth, you would find Will supported more direct assistance to the poor and sick rather than through a patchwork of insurance regulations.

Quoting piscivorous: Now I understand both yours and bjkeefe misuse of the word hate. You have both had it so easy in life that you have no conception of what the word hate actually implies so it it really has no meaning or value to either of you. My you always remain so ignorant it refreshing to see such innocence in anyone over 7 or 8.

C'mon, playing the "hard life" card? Might work for the neophytes, but I call bullshit. You don't know what other people might have experienced in their lives by reading these comments, as everyone deals with what life hands them in different ways.
This is just the "truth... you can't handle the truth" defense, and it is weak. How about if I make a few assumptions based on your verbose postings?:
Just because you appear to be an angry, bitter, unbending curmudgeon, with rush playing in one ear and o'rielly in the other, doesn't mean that yours is the only viewpoint produced from hard experience. How'd ya like it? While you are composing your thousand or so word "Nuh uh" in response to this, try to remember, we all have our crosses, but some of us

Many smart things were said in this diavlog. However, (42:14) "...You don't even have to pay [students] in cash. You can pay them in cellphone minutes." Ugh. Sounds like an idea brought to you by Verizon or AT&T.

Actual it is not to hard to get to the supposition that your life has been so easy that you have no concept of what the word hate implies. Hate is the strongest of negative emotions and to impute that one hates some because they disagree with my point of view, or that I think their opinion and ideas are simplistic and banal and thus leads me to the conclusion that they have got their head up there ass, borders on hate is ludicrous. Had you ever experienced an event in you life that brings forth hate you would immediately understand the difference. Since you can see no difference it is not difficult to surmise that you have never really experienced it and therefore have lead an easy life. While you can try to obfuscate the "easy life" into a solely physical manifestation of easy such as wealth, good fortune, good health etc. Take Bill Cosby, one that has by your implication of only physical aspects of what constitutes an "easy life", buried his Son Ennis were the physical manifestation of the "easy

I still contend it is a useless strategy to point to life experience levels you know nothing about. Why didn't you just take exception to the context and meaning of the word as it was used? You have to insinuate that those you are countering are ignorant because they don't have the life experience that you do.
I agree the word was used perhaps offhandedly but your agenda to discredit those you disagree with through the use of implication of caricature is showing your lack of objectivity and civility, and I like that, 'cause it opens the door for me to do the same.
SOooooo back at cha.

Again you conflate my words with your own thought process. Where in this comment chain have I used my life or it's experiences with what I surmise is your lack of them. I use Mr Cosby to illustrate the silliness of your and others use of the term hate here. It's casual usage not only shows the shallowness of your arguments, for you can come up with not much more than emotional appeals, personal attack and denigration. Beyond that it cheapens the word so that in the end it has no or little specific context. What word should one substitute for hate since it is used here to attach to someone that only disagrees with the thoughts and opinions of another.

Quoting piscivorous: Again you conflate my words with your own thought process. Where in this comment chain have I used my life or it's experiences with what I surmise is your lack of them. I use Mr Cosby to illustrate the silliness of your and others use of the term hate here. It's casual usage not only shows the shallowness of your arguments, for you can come up with not much more than emotional appeals, personal attack and denigration. Beyond that it cheapens the word so that in the end it has no or little specific context. What word should one substitute for hate since it is used here to attach to someone that only disagrees with the thoughts and opinions of another.

Conflation of your words is my intent, as I see them as unnecessarily inflated. The conjecture that others do not understand a word because of their lack of life experience, is a direct implication that you have more, or could not have come to this conclusion. Go back and read my post, I am agreeing with your point, but taking exception with your tactic. I did not use the word in

With bjkeefe people are equivalent to cattle and you it is ice cream. Peas in a pod I would say.

Quoting piscivorous: With bjkeefe people are equivalent to cattle and you it is ice cream. Peas in a pod I would say.

Only as far as agreeing you are a pod.

Quoting handle: Only as far as agreeing you are a pod.

Oh, snap.

(a) seems to be the toughest leap of faith. If you accept (a) I think the rest takes care of itself. My own apocalyptic view is that I see the obvious problems and I don't see the obvious solutions. There is a huge incentive to be optimistic (for one thing, the more apocalyptic things get, the harder it is to cash out your apocalyptic bets). Perhaps if I knew more of the science of non-carbon based energy sources I wouldn't be developing a twitch. Holy shit. I just went over to Marginal Revolution and TC has a whole post about this. If anyone is willing to believe me, this is coincidence.

Did Will really say he can't think of ANYTHING other than free markets that would make schools better?