Fascinating discussion on loneliness. Kudos to the interviewer, Kerry, and the author, John. I will have to listen to it again since I didn't get the "ease" program for combating loneliness correctly identified. The first "e" is for extending yourself the "a" is for action but I didn't get the last two (s & e). Actually, it would behoove me to listen to it a few times since I am a lonely person. John

I'm somewhat lonely too, but I attribute that to moving every two years.

Quoting bkjazfan: The first "e" is for extending yourself the "a" is for action but I didn't get the last two (s & e).

Selection and Expect the best, if that helps.

Quoting bjkeefe: Selection and Expect the best, if that helps.

Yes, it helps. Thanks for the information. John

i spend more time reading and learning on the internet when i used to "hang" but it's because most people are boring and you can't learn anything from them.

I am certain that all fans of Free Will extend their congratulations to Kerry and Will on their upcoming nuptials. Not sure if this will make Kerry less lonely, but it will make it harder to get rid of Will. More of the congratulations go to Will for getting Kerry to be his bride. Like most women (including Michelle Obama - just ask Barack), she is marrying down. My great fear is that one day women are going to figure out that all men do is cause problems and get rid of us. In the meantime, keep those blinders on ladies and have mercy on men, the weaker sex.

John has a website for Loneliness. He has a detailed explanation of EASE.

The Value of Solitude Interesting conversation. I could write pages in response. I earned a PhD on the effects of deep solitude. For my fieldwork, I went into a remote wilderness area on the coast of southern Chile, built a shelter, and lived without seeing anyone for a year. I was both researcher and the subject of my research. There is a lot of information on the positive effects of solitude on my website: www.bobkull.org and in my recent book: "Solitude: Seeking Wisdom In Extremes", which tells the story of my year alone in the wilderness. There are a few important points the diavlog either missed or glossed over: Aloneness/solitude is not the same as feeling isolated or lonely. During my year in solitude I sometimes felt lonely and at other times, with no change in circumstance, felt completely woven into the world around me. For me, the root cause of loneliness is not feeling isolated from other people, but feeling alienated from self. Dr. Cacioppo’s suggestions for alleviating loneliness are valuable, but they are all intended to help people engage in social activity and avoid the feeling of loneliness. There is also another way. Instead of valuing loneliness only because it

I wonder what John has to say about the principle form of punishment in our booming prison system: solitary confinement. With 2.2 million people living under the threat of loneliness as punishment, I would expect John to view solitary (the SHU, the "hole", etc.) as a serious health hazard, perhaps analogous to punishment by virus.

Interesting dialogue, but it illustrates the shortcomings of "social science"--as practiced in American universities. So much rigorous empirical research---questionnaires, statistics, evolutionary psychology---all mustered to support a few embarrassingly obvious truisms. Perhaps I should listen again, I may have missed something. I don't mean to belittle the research of Dr Cacioppo, but I have the same impression listening to him as I have when I hear or read the advice of "mental health professionals": who would pay for this stuff? Anyone familiar with world literature since, say, the 18th century when writers and poets discovered the joys and sorrows of loneliness and solitude, as well as the pleasures and displeasures of society, could say more interesting things on this subject. For example: shouldn't we distinguish between mere gregariousness, the desire for the approval of the herd (see etymology of "gregariousness"), motivated mainly by vanity, and the desire for friendship or love or philosophical companionship? Many people feel lonely and unhappy because they expect from others what others can never give them, a sense of self-worth. Others, on the contrary, feel happy precisely because they expect little from others: they find in the solitude of their own thoughts, in music, in a beautiful landscape, in a

Quoting Francoamerican: Interesting dialogue, but it illustrates the shortcomings of "social science"--as practiced in American universities. So much rigorous empirical research---questionnaires, statistics, evolutionary psychology---all mustered to support a few embarrassingly obvious truisms. [...]

Anyone familiar with world literature since, say, the 18th century when writers and poets discovered the joys and sorrows of loneliness and solitude, as well as the pleasures and displeasures of society, could say more interesting things on this subject. [...]

There's something to your complaints, but I think you go too far. It's important to verify (or disprove) things that "everyone knows" by applying scientific rigor. Most of science progress is gotten in this way -- incrementally, even painfully slowly. We don't want to say "case closed" just because some navel-gazing literary giants wrote something down in past centuries. If we did, we'd still be teaching physics according to Aristotle, right? I doubt, also, that there's anything unique to the way social science is done in American universities. Either universities elsewhere do things pretty much the same way, or they're just not doing this sort of work. If the latter is your point, I'd say, fine, you're entitled to your own priorities when it comes to allocating research funds, but I happen to think it'd

Quoting bjkeefe: There's something to your complaints, but I think you go too far. It's important to verify (or disprove) things that "everyone knows" by applying scientific rigor. Most of science progress is gotten in this way -- incrementally, even painfully slowly. We don't want to say "case closed" just because some navel-gazing literary giants wrote something down in past centuries. If we did, we'd still be teaching physics according to Aristotle, right?.

If the purpose of science is to repeat the obvious (=what most people of average intelligence already know), I guess you are right. In any case, there is a long ongoing dispute whether the "science" of "social sciences" is more than a promissory note. In my opinion it is not. There is more "science" of human nature in Hobbes and Rousseau, in Shakespeare or Stendhal or Proust, than in the pitiful platitudes I heard in this dialogue.

Quoting bjkeefe: I doubt, also, that there's anything unique to the way social science is done in American universities. Either universities elsewhere do things pretty much the same way, or they're just not doing this sort of work. If the latter is your point, I'd say, fine, you're entitled to your own priorities when it comes to allocating research funds, but

Quoting Francoamerican: If the purpose of science is to repeat the obvious (=what most people of average intelligence already know), I guess you are right.

That's my point. Sometimes the conventional wisdom turns out to be wrong. Taking your point of view to an extreme, we'd never do any science at all.

In any case, there is a long ongoing dispute whether the "science" of "social sciences" is more than a promissory note.

Sure. It's just beginning.

There is more "science" of human nature in Hobbes and Rousseau, in Shakespeare or Stendhal or Proust, than in the pitiful platitudes I heard in this dialogue.

They were keen observers of human nature, to be sure, but that doesn't mean they're the last word. Also, I think you're being ridiculous to generalize about all of social science work from this one diavlog.

Quoting thprop: I am certain that all fans of Free Will extend their congratulations to Kerry and Will on their upcoming nuptials. Not sure if this will make Kerry less lonely, but it will make it harder to get rid of Will. More of the congratulations go to Will for getting Kerry to be his bride. Like most women (including Michelle Obama - just ask Barack), she is marrying down.

+1. I'm impressed Will managed to lure Kerry into Harry Browne's "marriage trap." You'd think an individualist feminist as sharp as she would be loathe to submit to the affection-monopolizing rent-seeking that is state-sanctioned monogamy (marriage license = royal charter?), but I guess she sees something in him that we don't. Congrats you two kids.

Quoting bjkeefe: That's my point. Sometimes the conventional wisdom turns out to be wrong. Taking your point of view to an extreme, we'd never do any science at all..

Indeed, conventional wisdom is often wrong. The writers I mentioned were deeply aware of that fact, and often said unconventional things. If social scientists want to repeat what everyone already knows (=conventional wisdom), supported by statistics etc. I have no objection. But that doesn't make what they say scientific. Science is a METHOD for asking the right questions (formulating hypotheses etc) and for finding the right answers to those questions; it isn't a collection of facts, validating or invalidating conventional wisdom. Besides, for all we know, the conventional and unconventional wisdom about human nature, accumulated over the centuries in the works of philosophers and poets, may be the only "science" (=knowledge) of human nature there is. Until the social sciences prove otherwise, I will stick with Hobbes and Rousseau. They were more interesting, and better writers. PS. I suppose it is a "scientifically established fact" (i.e. evolutionary biology tells us it is true) that human beings are gregarious or social animals, and feel lonely outside their herd. But this "truth," in reality a half-truth, is as old as the hills. It can be found

i've become quite an expert in this field over the past three or so months! nikkibong.blogspot.com

Quoting Francoamerican: [...]

Noted. I don't have anything to add.

Quoting nikkibong: i've become quite an expert in this field over the past three or so months!

nikkibong.blogspot.com

You poor thing. You need to get out more nikkibong, and stop the self-abuse!

Interesting post. I don't think anything you said is inconsistent with John's views, but the nuances are certainly worth considering.

Ha good catch, Joel_Cairo, the link is incorrect though...enjoy!