Quoting Baltimoron: I think the Independents meme is just a very delusional way of saying that winning is not important. it's a very egghead - Marxist? - way to resist the reality, that theories do not rule the world. The tricks of campaigning, of last-minute stunts to sway voters, the unions driving seniors to the polls, the "rat-fucking" - I just watched All the President's Men for the millionth time - et al, matter.

Re: My 1000th Post!

Quoting popcorn_karate: ... the size of the republican party has shrunk down to 25% of the voters ...

In the latest Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll, only 17 percent of Americans identify themselves as Republicans (as opposed to 30 percent for the Democrats, and 44 for independents).

Generally speaking, do you think of yourself as a Democrat, a Republican, an independent, or something else? (IF "DEMOCRAT" OR "REPUBLICAN," ASK) Would you call yourself a strong (Democrat/Republican) or not a very strong (Democrat/Republican)? (IF "INDEPENDENT," ASK) Do you think of yourself as closer to the Republican Party, closer to the Democratic Party, or do you think of yourself as strictly independent?

Strong Democrat............................. 24
Not very strong Democrat................ 6
Independent/lean Democrat ............ 13
Strictly Independent ........................ 17
Independent/lean Republican .......... 14
Not very strong Republican ............. 7
Strong Republican........................... 10
Other (VOL) .................................... 6
Not sure........................................ 3

Quoting graz: Congratulations!

Quoting Baltimoron: Do I win something? How about the right to select the next two 'heads for a diavlog?

Quoting Baltimoron: Do I win something? How about the right to select the next two 'heads for a diavlog?

Now here's one guy here I would trust to do this.

Quoting bjkeefe: Second.

As far as Bob and Joel's laments about the apparent end of an era goes, I feel for them personally.

Quoting popcorn_karate: at one time (2004) the parties were bigger than the "independents". Now, "independents" are a larger block than either party, and it seems pretty clear that a large number of them are people that recently abandoned the Republican party. To try and characterize this group of people as a cohesive or coherent group is just ridiculous. given the recent defections, independents will break republican fairly consistently - because they are basically republicans.

Quoting piscivorous: I not positive but I believe that the Republican savings are of the baseline deficit (what it would be if no programs are add that increase the deficit). The Democrats comes from some solid and some faux projected savings, that require further congressional action (not likely), after the cost of the bill is added to the baseline deficit. That does make some difference

... the Democratic bill has already been through three committees and a merger process. It's already been shown to interest groups and advocacy organizations and industry stakeholders. It's already made its compromises with reality. It's already been through the legislative sausage grinder. And yet it saves more money and covers more people than the blank-slate alternative proposed by John Boehner

Baselines and scorekeeping are an integral part of the federal budget process, providing
lawmakers with a framework for making and enforcing budgetary decisions. The existing-law
baseline, currently used by Congress, is a projection of federal spending, revenue, and the deficit
(or surplus) that would occur if existing law were left unchanged. The baseline serves as a
benchmark for federal budget decisions. Scorekeeping is the process by which the budgetary
impact of proposed and enacted budget policies is measured; it assists Congress in making and
enforcing budgetary decisions. This report provides a brief explanation of baselines and
scorekeeping and their uses in the congressional budget process. For more information on the
budget process, see the CRS Guides to Congressional Processes at http://www.crs.gov/products/
guides/ guidehome.shtml.

Quoting piscivorous: Here is a brief synopses of the CBO estimate guidelines
The highlighted portion should confirm that that the effect of adding 800/900 billion has to be taken into account. The Republican alternative has no or little spending, that I know of, so it is essentially coming of the baseline budget while the savings of the Democrats, if they are all realized, comes off the baseline plus 800/900 billion.

Quoting bjkeefe: As far as Bob and Joel's laments about the apparent end of an era goes, I feel for them personally.

However, when I consider the MSM as a whole, it gets a lot stickier.

[Added] Also worth checking out if you're following the HCR debate.

Quoting Simon Willard: I don't know why you assume a defecting Republican is basically a Republican. Couldn't you equally well argue that someone who abandons a party would have a tendency to vote the other way? Otherwise, why defect?

Quoting piscivorous: Here is a brief synopses of the CBO estimate guidelines
The highlighted portion should confirm that that the effect of adding 800/900 billion has to be taken into account. The Republican alternative has no or little spending, that I know of, so it is essentially coming of the baseline budget while the savings of the Democrats, if they are all realized, comes off the baseline plus 800/900 billion.

Quoting Simon Willard: The elements comprising our bodies (other than Hydrogen) were created by the explosions of supernovae, events of unimaginable violence. Violence is our ancestry and heritage. We are violent stardust.

What this means for Bob's god thesis, I'm not sure.

But it seems some of us still can't control ourselves.

Quoting badhatharry: Cute. So you do you think we'll be able to get ourselves back to the garden?

Quoting Simon Willard: No, but Bob will always get back to the Garden State.

Quoting BornAgainDemocrat: They are so funny together! Love it.

Quoting nikkibong: (As an aside: Wasn't it the advent of USA Today, which occurred way prior to the rise of the internet, that led to papers putting more emphasis and graphs and visuals?

Quoting nikkibong: I don't feel as though I'm witnessing the decline of narrative, as form.

Quoting Starwatcher162536: Harkin, you are just a perfect model of centrism and objectivity!

Quoting bjkeefe: Especially in light of recent Republican "alternatives;" e.g., as John says:

... they released a budget with no numbers on April Fools day ...

Quoting harkin: From a recent Gallup Poll:

"Forty percent of Americans describe their political views as conservative, 36% as moderate, and 20% as liberal. This marks a shift from 2005 through 2008, when moderates were tied with conservatives as the most prevalent group."

Quoting harkin: You have me mixed up with Al Gore, creator of the internet and the only guy I know who can live a life of luxury and waste while condemning others for doing so, and make a few million on the side for same. His cover story in the Costco Mag should be interesting reading while folks are loading up on big screen TVs and filling up on cheap gasoline. Gotta move those books ya know.

If only there were liberals who were as easy to make fun of as Glenn Beck.

Quoting harkin: ... the only guy I know who can live a life of luxury and waste while condemning others for doing so, and make a few million on the side for same.

Quoting popcorn_karate: i find him quite entertaining - because of the exact things you dislike.

one man's trash is another man's treasure and all that

Quoting AemJeff: Jeeze harkin, the canard about the Internet is the dumbest hit on Gore possible. He never said it, as has been pointed out about a hundred million times by now.

Quoting AemJeff: I do love the "Al Gore lives in a big house, so AGW is

Quoting harkin: Whoa, is the english squad really capable of making such a huge error?

The link you pasted says that it's been proven false that Al Gore said he (and here's the important part) "invented" the internet.

Got that? INVENTED, in quotation marks. A technicality dodge to [cough] prove that Gore never took credit in a disingenuous and self-serving (even the website you linked admits this) manner to try and blow up his technical bonafides in his conversation with Wolf Blitzer (the minus 2,000 point man on Jeopardy).

If you go back and look at what I posted. I called him the 'creator' of the internet.

Your link includes Gore's quote:

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the internet"

You really have to look yourself in the face Aem, and ask how differently you'd react if Dan Quayle had uttered these incredibly lame and self-serving words.

and this is even better:

Since you use Snopes as an end-all to prove your point, you'd better take a look at this inconvenient truth:

A Tale Of Two Houses

Enjoy

Quoting AemJeff: All I can say is, if you think you have a point, but you're stuck parsing so carefully......

Quoting AemJeff: What he did say was that he had a major role in its inception.

Quoting Aemjeff: Al Gore has a HUGE house? I'm impressed. What does it have to do with anything?

Quoting harkin: LOLOLOL - I'm the one parsing carefully?

You linked to a very disingenuous post that had to use quotation marks and different language to disprove something I never said.

Umm, no actually what he DID say that made everyone laugh at him was (once again, and from YOUR LINK):

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the internet"

It's nice to know that the dictionary/english usage attack squad is ready to trash their ideals when trying to score political points or defend their clownish leaders.

Al Gore, savior of the planet who preaches against man's squandering of our precious resources, who advocates strict downsizing of man's energy uses to reverse the coming apocalypse from global warming, who won a Nobel Prize for his tireless crusade to save the planet from planet-killing energy hogs.......

nothing to see here, move along.

LOLOLOLOL

House #1

A 20 room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house, all heated by gas. In one month this residence consumes more energy than the average American household does in a year. The average bill for electricity and

Quoting AemJeff: My goodness. Click on this article in Wikipedia, if you like.

Quoting AemJeff: In regard to his house - you seem to conflate Gore's importance as a guy who effectively popularized a critical issue (AGW), with the importance of the issue itself. Whether he's a resource pig (probably true)

Quoting AemJeff: has no bearing on the truth value of the content of what he's said.

Quoting harkin: I posted his quote numerous times. You are the one who keeps re-wording what he meant, what he implied. I will let his words speak for themselves.

The important fact is that you run from these words, you twist them to mean something he didn't say, but you never want Gore to own them. If you really, truly believe Al Gore was there at the Internet's 'inception' (your word) which btw means beginning, you'll have to place him in numerous universites, research labs and defense contractors' locations in the 60s and 70s.

'Probably'???

Dood uses 20 times the energy of the average american home at just one of his luxury residences.

You mean the truth value of his film that the British courts found was partisan political propaganda with numerous inaccuracies? The truth value of the guy who (when presented with some of the lies and inconsistancies in his film at his speeches) turns off his critics' microphones?

You're not only debating it, you're losing the debate. What's one level below 'dopey'?

Speaking of significant, Gore may become the first billionaire who earned his pile from investing in businesses that receive government subsidies because they havent proven