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In Praise of Forgetting
Recorded: November 10  Posted: November 16
bjkeefe wrote on 11/16/2009 at 02:04 PM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schönberger & Farhad Manjoo)
First, great to see Farhad! Salon blundered badly in letting him get away.
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Farhad asks around 7:30 if the situation with the previously jailed mom is merely "collateral damage," pointing out that there is also a lot of good to be had from the boom in readily available information. I think this is correct, but I'd also say, about this specific case, two things. First, how much of an oddity is it? I mean, you can find one or two bad stories connected to anything, if you look hard enough. Second, how much were this family's friends worth, if they want nothing to do with someone who once did something bad as a kid, for which she has served the time, and has since, apparently, lived a good life?
In general, my feeling is that society is largely going to adjust in the sense that past peccadilloes are going to be given progressively less weight as the next generations replace the existing ones. I think there will be less traction to be gained by being a scold about someone else's life history. The changing attitude about presidential candidates and their long-ago drug use suggests this -- people are developing
harkin wrote on 11/16/2009 at 04:42 PM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schonberger & Farhad Manjoo)
Forgiveness of a past wrong (where "deception" and other dishonesty is clearly asserted) should not be based on length of time to "forget the details and live in the present" as Viktor advocates but rather on whether the transgressor ever atoned for the wrong.
I don't really see how looking at reality could 'cloud' your perception of a person. Everyone should own what they've done. Everyone has friends/collegues who have crossed the line in regards to inproper behavior but once someone willingly lies/steals/misrepresents, they have forfeited the very nature of what it means to be a friend in the first place.
Viktor never makes it clear if he's talking about someone holding a grudge over something that happened 8-10 years ago while ignoring all the subsequent happy times or if he's referring to someone who's been out of the picture a long time and the last interaction was something indicative of their general behavior.
It makes a difference.
Sadly, even today, it is sometimes necessary to prove one's "innocence" no matter how outlandish the accusations are. Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin agree with you. Too bad you couldn't defend them when they were being smeared.
bjkeefe wrote on 11/16/2009 at 05:17 PM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schonberger & Farhad Manjoo)
Quoting harkin: [...]
Sadly, even today, it is sometimes necessary to prove one's "innocence" no matter how outlandish the accusations are. Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin agree with you. Too bad you couldn't defend them when they were being smeared. Yeah, like you and your steadfast efforts to knock down the wingnut nonsense about Barack Obama?
Also, given how much your two heroes have, in fact, done that is thoroughly documented, the "smears" against them are lost in the noise. And quite apart from that, considering their overall disgraceful behaviors and appalling attitudes on so many things that are important to me, you're asking the wrong effing guy. Especially given the right-wing noise machine's modus operandi over at least the course of my entire life.
The rest of your comment was pretty good, though.
Simon Willard wrote on 11/17/2009 at 08:38 AM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schönberger & Farhad Manjoo)
Quoting bjkeefe: This is not a "tremendously important and deep problem" (~26:45) This is a problem so deep as to be disconnected from any reasonable concern.
harkin wrote on 11/17/2009 at 09:26 AM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schonberger & Farhad Manjoo)
Quoting bjkeefe: Yeah, like you and your steadfast efforts to knock down the wingnut nonsense about Barack Obama?
Also, given how much your two heroes have, in fact, done that is thoroughly documented, the "smears" against them are lost in the noise. And quite apart from that, considering their overall disgraceful behaviors and appalling attitudes on so many things that are important to me, you're asking the wrong effing guy. Especially given the right-wing noise machine's modus operandi over at least the course of my entire life.. Just for once back up something you say about me. Please list where I have said either of these people are my "heroes". Defending people from smears is not the same as promoting them for office (something I've never done for Palin) or urged people to champion or listen to (something I've never done for Limbaugh). The fact that the smears both have endured have come from people claiming to have thoroughly 'documented' them when they've done nothing of the sort just makes your claims all the more specious.
What I have done is point out the ludicrous double-standard employed by the msm and others
bjkeefe wrote on 11/17/2009 at 09:45 AM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schonberger & Farhad Manjoo)
Quoting harkin: Just for once back up something you say about me. Please list where I have said either of these people are my "heroes". You brought them up, completely unprompted, in the most clunky way imaginable. Okay, so maybe you didn't specifically call them your heroes, but it's obvious from what you did that these two people hold a special place in your heart. Or wherever it is people like you store their grievances about Teh LIEbrul Media, etc.
Quoting harkin: Did you know that the AP has a team of investigators pouring over Sarah Palin's book? I'm shocked, shocked that someone who has spent her every waking moment for the past fourteen months grasping for media attention is getting media attention. The outrage!!!1!
Quoting harkin: Would you think it asking too much to have the press apply the same scrutiny to the Health Care Bill? Yeah, you're right. Now that you mention it, I haven't seen a single story about the Health Care Bill. Again: damn that liebrul meedeeeuh!!!1!
Fortunately, we have Sarah Palin's Facebook page to tell us the truth about Death Panels.
Quoting harkin: Hey thanks! y/w.
bjkeefe wrote on 11/17/2009 at 09:48 AM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schönberger & Farhad Manjoo)
Quoting Simon Willard: This is a problem so deep as to be disconnected from any reasonable concern. Nice.
SkepticDoc wrote on 11/17/2009 at 05:37 PM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schonberger & Farhad Manjoo)
New neurons for new memories
SkepticDoc wrote on 11/17/2009 at 06:48 PM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schonberger & Farhad Manjoo)
From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/17/l...ogy/index.html
popcorn_karate wrote on 11/19/2009 at 02:26 PM
Re: In Praise of Forgetting (Viktor Mayer-Schonberger & Farhad Manjoo)
Quoting harkin: Forgiveness of a past wrong (where "deception" and other dishonesty is clearly asserted) should not be based on length of time to "forget the details and live in the present" as Viktor advocates but rather on whether the transgressor ever atoned for the wrong.
I don't really see how looking at reality could 'cloud' your perception of a person. Everyone should own what they've done. Everyone has friends/collegues who have crossed the line in regards to inproper behavior but once someone willingly lies/steals/misrepresents, they have forfeited the very nature of what it means to be a friend in the first place.
Viktor never makes it clear if he's talking about someone holding a grudge over something that happened 8-10 years ago while ignoring all the subsequent happy times or if he's referring to someone who's been out of the picture a long time and the last interaction was something indicative of their general behavior.
It makes a difference. i agree with your thoughts up to this point, particularly on the atonement point - its not how long ago a betrayal happened, its whether someone has made a real effort to make amends and admit responsibility.
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uncle ebeneezer: We know how you feel, Mike! 
bjkeefe: Hear, hear!
uncle ebeneezer: What does it really mean?
uncle ebeneezer: Is Tom purposely trying to steer interest away from his profession?
themightypuck: Bob the Baptist comes out.
uncle ebeneezer: Will formulates a scenario where the terrorists, literally, win!
sapeye: Hmmm, is Bob guilty of serious stereotyping?
Stapler Malone: No, Bob. It’s not. Nothing ever is.
d7greene: Lawrence Lessig knows a juice-boxer when he sees one.
Toryentalist: Matt is great, Matt is great—listen and repeat.
thouartgob: Joel’s elegant refutation of Bob’s point.
uncle ebeneezer: George Johnson, hopeless romantic!
themightypuck: Robert Wright, Asteroid Cowboy.
bjkeefe: Spelling is fun-damental!
nikkibong: The joy of taking stuff out of context.
bjkeefe: Who stole Matthew’s tie?
uncle ebeneezer: The Art of Subtlety.
bjkeefe: Heather slaps the entire BhTV community.
bjkeefe: Can anyone find a case where this is not ultimately Mickey's advice to Dems?
Ken Davis: The racial blind taste test.
Stapler Malone: Go forward, not backward; upward not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom....
Simon Willard: Bob steps outside himself here.
JonIrenicus: Puzzle spelled out.
uncle ebeneezer: George's response here was absolutely priceless.
graz: Bob takes Tom Jones down a peg.
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