Quoting Baltimoron: Great theme music! I hope John has a good relationship with his ex, and that she won't use this diavlog against him for a settlement!

Like eHarmony, I find Mr. Horgan's submission here to be a bit ethically premature and can only speculate that he feels comfortable in doing so because of the good relationship with his soon to be ex and/or the fact that the separation was not his idea.

You're an ass - if you want to speculate about someone's private life, go to some gossip web site.

Quoting thprop: You're an ass - if you want to speculate about someone's private life, go to some gossip web site.

Actually, my post was a response to a similar reaction you had to mine. That being I found Horgan to be an ass in bringing this here in a state of "separation". Mr. Horgan went on the Market, and brought it to this market all by himself. Going "astray" in John's world could be that she all of a sudden found God or decided she tired of the lonely nights waiting for him to get back from one assignment after another. In any case, to accommodate your fragile sensibilities I have re-worded things a bit soas to clear my rationale for those not bright enough to have discerned it the first time.

Looking over the topics of this week's Science Saturday, I cringed. That's because I'm deeply into online dating as of a couple months ago, and every day I want to quit. Every day I rewrite my 'profile' and reshuffle my photographs. I feel like some old bird strutting around on a log, preening and re-preening faded, somewhat tattered feathers, seeking maximum effect, but no one notices! I must admit to having doctored my photographs by minimizing the creases in my throat with photoshop. I dated one local woman for ten days or so whom I found quite attractive physically. She is a bit odd, though, and claims to be able to see dead people walking around here and there, and to travel on the astral plane. She related to me the story of the demon who took the shape of a hag, and clung to the ceiling fan in her living room, rattling it and generally attempting to annoy. My erstwhile lady friend finally contacted paranormal experts who succeeded in driving the thing away. All this wasn't enough to prompt me to break off our budding romance. What did the trick was being present at a poetry slam where

One of the biggest science controversies in years going on and we get these fuds (no offense, I'm one myself) talking about doing fry, using Hendrix as theme song (Yakkity Sax would be more appropriate) and 'being on the market again'....... Heck, forget Boots Randolph, dial up some Myron Floren.

I'm almost...speechless. Well, not really. Informative diavlog. Educational in a different way. I've never used any kind of dating service, and I'm among those who would feel odd about it. Also, I can see the problem of choice and indecision and feeling overwhelmed, or simply using the opportunity of having too many choices, so to speak, to not commit. Of course, non commitment may be a goal in itself... Is BhTV going to become a self help/ support group for middle aged singles? Or is it already and nobody bothered to tell me? On a more serious note, I'm sorry to hear about John's separation. Sometimes, perhaps too often, relationships decay for one reason or the other. And once again, John and George pulled a very interesting conversation, even when the topic, may be considered somewhat 'unscientific'. Perhaps the success of a romantic relationship requires a good dose of faith... who knows?

I thought this was a really good post. Good luck. Also, sorry to hear about everything, John. All the best to you.

I'm saddened and surprised by John's announcement. There was always so much talk of "Suzy!" I don't have a copy handy, but I recall a very sweet dedication to her at the opening of the End of Science.

Quoting Ocean: ... who knows?

Jimmy did.

Survey Says!!! So sorry to hear about the breakup. Hang in there John. Check out the dating site offered through Salon/The Onion/Nerve. It's much cheaper than the big ones, and I know several people who have had excellent luck at finding very cool people on there. The women on there are mostly liberal, and very well-educated. That said, try to avoid discussions of string theory, creationism or Israel/Palestine until at least the 3rd date...trust me.

Quoting Whatfur: Actually, my post was a response to a similar reaction you had to mine. That being I found Horgan to be an ass in bringing this here in a state of "separation". Mr. Horgan went on the Market, and brought it to this market all by himself. Going "astray" in John's world could be that she all of a sudden found God or decided she tired of the lonely nights waiting for him to get back from one assignment after another. In any case, to accommodate your fragile sensibilities I have re-worded things a bit soas to clear my rationale for those not bright enough to have discerned it the first time.

John never said that anyone or anything went "astray". He only said anything about his marital situation (which he called "sad news") as an explanation for how he got into the topic of online dating. He specifically said he "would not go into the details of why this happened." So we should not be speculating - what difference does it make?

Quoting nikkibong: I'm saddened and surprised by John's announcement. There was always so much talk of "Suzy!" I don't have a copy handy, but I recall a very sweet dedication to her at the opening of the End of Science.

The dedication just reads "For Suzie". In the acknowledgments at the end of the book (which came out in 1996) , he says -
"I owe thanks above all to my wife, Suzie, without whom I would have nothing."

a great bvlog. An ostensibly 'soft' subject for two scientists, who made it interesting and deep. Not to mention flat out funny at several points. George's quick sum-ups drily and sincerely delivered ex: "Excitable ? You don't want to be a chihuahua, your whole nervous system one big short circuit." Fabulous! Did he ad lib that ? He could write for Comedy Central!

Quoting Ocean: I've never used any kind of dating service, and I'm among those who would feel odd about it. Also, I can see the problem of choice and indecision and feeling overwhelmed, or simply using the opportunity of having too many choices, so to speak, to not commit. Of course, non commitment may be a goal in itself...

I have never used a dating service but would not feel odd about it. I think they would be great for the purpose John and George spoke of - a first cut screening. You answer a lot of questions quickly and don't waste time. About 25 years ago, I met a woman who was an evangelical xian. I did not find that out until our second date. That relationship was clearly not going anywhere. If I had met her online, look at the time and effort saved. For you, the problem would be way too many suitors - you would exhaust yourself fending them off.

Is BhTV going to become a self help/ support group for middle aged singles? Or is it already and nobody bothered to tell me?

I thought the comment section already served that purpose. There is enough bickering that we seem like a bunch

"They always make you sound good." But, I like to focus on the negative: here's George from a critical point of view. Late in college, getting my degree in engineering, I took this Psychology of Personality class, taught once a week for 3 hours. Never can I remember a class that seemed so palpably hated by every person taking it--people laying across the chairs, asking annoyed, monotone questions--except me, because I loved it. Fascinating. Personality types come down from Jung, who sits right on this intellectual spot that can be both science and BS. I did further digging after this class, which led me to the five factor theory of personality. This asserts that when you factor all these personality studies together, it leads to a (somewhat quantitative) conclusion that personality either manifests or is perceived in five dimensions. (As opposed to the four of the Myers-Briggs survey.) Incidentally, this further digging also lead me to stand in bookstores and read a few New Age airy fairy books that put all these personality types at the points of celtic diamonds and other assorted nonsense. All very astrological. But there remains a strong sense that there are a finite number of

Quoting thprop: I thought the comment section already served that purpose. There is enough bickering that we seem like a bunch of old married couples.

Yes, that's true. And many on the verge of divorce...

I think this is a fascinating subject. We (homo sapiens) are a social species. Yet we do not know that much about the most important social interaction we have - the one that leads to reproduction.

That social interaction is meant to last beyond the reproductive years. But, I agree that there is not even an attempt to educate young people about how to establish and maintain solid couples relationships. The same is true for parenting.

I was talking to a friend who is going through a divorce. She said that maybe it was better when marriages were arranged. Trying to do it ourselves has not worked out all that well.

I don't know that's the case. It may be something that works for some people or some cultures, and perhaps not others. Who guarantees that the matchmakers know what they are doing?

I'm saddened and surprised by John's announcement. There was always so much talk of "Suzy!" I don't have a copy handy, but I recall a very sweet dedication to her at the opening of the End of Science.

I know. I thought they were one of the best couples I knew (without knowing either one of them, of course). Anyway, it's serious and painful business for them and their children. I hope all works out well. By the way, is it legal for E-harmony to discriminate against gays and lesbians? I was shocked to hear that one.

Quoting osmium: ... I did further digging after this class, which led me to the five factor theory of personality. This asserts that when you factor all these personality studies together, it leads to a (somewhat quantitative) conclusion that personality either manifests or is perceived in five dimensions. (As opposed to the four of the Myers-Briggs survey.)

OCEAN? Cool.
There is a book that provides very valuable tips about how romantic relationships develop and why. It also tells you about how they sour or fail. Although it's meant for couples, of course, it can be read by anybody what wants to understand the dynamics in relationships. The book is "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix.

I have tried a couple of the dating services. Nothing much came of the dates but I found the experience to be challenging at a minimum and at times enjoyable. I looked into EHarmony and took their test to find out my 29 dimensions of personality (I never knew I had that many) but never utilized it. Now that particular service is more expensive than Yahoo Personals or Match.com. Surprisingly, I had better luck from the phone one called Lavalife than the Internet ones. I am sorry to hear of John's marital difficulties. Getting a divorce was the most traumatic experience of my life. When children are involved it can be quite difficult. John

Due to a lawsuit I think EHarmony has opened up it's service to gays and lesbians. I heard something to that effect about a year ago on the news. John

Quoting harkin: One of the biggest science controversies in years going on and we get these fuds (no offense, I'm one myself) talking about doing fry, using Hendrix as theme song (Yakkity Sax would be more appropriate) and 'being on the market again'.......

Heck, forget Boots Randolph, dial up some Myron Floren.

That's because the only people who think there's a significant controversy are the people who have always thought there was a controversy, anyway, regardless of any understanding of the evidence (and judging from most of the verbiage from that side, any understanding of the nature of evidence, generally.)

David Brooks has continued to be as bad as he always was, mischaracterizing neuroscience/psychology as he does sociology/political science. The paradox of choice is not robust. Bad news for John: everything is reduceable.

Quoting Whatfur: That being I found Horgan to be an ass in bringing this here in a state of "separation". Mr. Horgan went on the Market, and brought it to this market all by himself.

Giving-thanks to George and John. You all have provided a familiar and welcomed part of my web experience. In contrast to the dud(e) above, I want to shout out some gratitude for your forthright conveyance of the practical response to your personal trial. George: I too loved Pieces of April. Katie Holmes before Tom Cruise... touching and truthful if a bit contrived.

This one got me. I am a recently retired university prof - sixty five years old. Having lost my wife fifteen years ago and spending considerable time dating after that- I soon came mistakenly to the conclusion that I was happiest single, and then recognized that I was essentially in the state of what I called "longing". For what? Someone with whom I could connect and share intimacy. As it turns out, at 59 years old, I was finally ready to admit to myself that I was gay. I had twenty five years of marriage, two terrific sons and a close circle of smart, fun and interesting friends. After some surreptitious stalking of a "reputable" (gay/straight) site, I soon wrote up my own description, lying only about my age by two years, and describing myself as accurately and openly as I could. Frankly, I found it interesting, erotically charged and personally instructive. I was able to explore who I was with objective anonymity in a way that traditional face -to-face dating wouldn't possibly allow within a realistic timeframe. I received a few hits , mostly desperate for sex, and responded as honestly as possible to many. I met up with five people, found two to be rather slimy and three others to be interesting solid

Quoting Ocean: OCEAN? Cool.

Ha, I actually thought about saying something about that when I posted it. But obviously then I didn't. OCEAN is so much cooler than CANOE, right, totally?

I apologize to John Jorgan for starting this line, due to my habit for minimizing acute situations with bad humor. I look forward to hearing more about his work on war, because I couldn't care less about this diavlog's focus. Love is one of life's accidents, and family one of its duties. It's not a topic for debate. I hope this tangent doesn't mean he has halted that project.

This reminds me of the "blood type" nonsense South Korean women. espouse. But, that pales next to the urge to visit fortune-tellers.

Quoting graz: ...touching...if a bit contrived.

Who's the ass now? Bold one. Shorter graz...

"Look at me! Look at me! Look at how avant garde I am! Look John what someone said about you but then THEN Look at me! Look at me!"

John and George are great. I only watched the 13 minute intro...but I assume based on the more rational comments here it was enlightening and interesting. Even giving John the benefit of the doubt that his soon-to-be ex-wife would be fine with this discussion, my opinion (prudish or not) would be that it would be better presented post-divorce. If I am the only one holding that opinion, I can live with that.

Even giving John the benefit of the doubt that his soon-to-be ex-wife would be fine with this discussion, my opinion (prudish or not) would be that it would be better presented post-divorce. If I am the only one holding that opinion, I can live with that.

I agree.

Quoting Whatfur: Who's the ass now?

Both of us?

Shorter graz...
Quote:
"Look at me! Look at me! Look at how avant garde I am! Look John what someone said about you but then THEN Look at me! Look at me!"

Avant garde? Please explain.

Even giving John the benefit of the doubt that his soon-to-be ex-wife would be fine with this discussion, my opinion (prudish or not) would be that it would be better presented post-divorce.

Beats calling him an ass... I guess.
You assume that you know better than he does how to comport himself during a break-up. Not surprised.

I've recently canceled my Match.com subscription after about 4 years and $1600. I haven't had any bad experiences but nothing has come of the handful of contacts I made. On the other hand I wasn't very aggressive about writing people either. Match.com has worked for friends of mine but it's not for me. I think George's comment that compatibility and chemistry may be perpendicular axes is relevant in my case. That's not Match, that's me. Anyway the book I want to see is a catalog of remarkable passages from personal profiles. I was a male seeking female so the quotes from real Match profiles that follow are by women. I'm sure men write similar or similarly remarkable things. Profile 1: "I'm a very laid back kinda gal. Love blue jeans and Tshirts . . . . Sometimes its fun to get all dressed up . . . Looking for a sweet man not a butt munch." Profile 2: "Important things you should know. My kids already have a father and they don't need another one. I am an urban-city type person. so please don't send me pictures of yourself standing next to your cow or your John Deere toy . . . ." Profile 3--not asking

Sheeesh! Why did you have to divulge my profile?!

Quoting Gulfstream: I've recently canceled my Match.com subscription after about 4 years and $1600.

How did you spend $1600? I had to register with Match to get their rates which are:
6 months - 16.99 per month
3 months - 19.99 per month
1 month - 34.99 per month If you kept renewing month after month, it would be $1,680. If you knew you were going to be on for a while, why not use the six month rate which would have been $816 for the four years.

Maybe he can't make a commitment?

All due respect to thprop but who starts out believing they're going to be on Match for a while? Well I didn't anyway, but I'm not that bright. So a month turned into two months turned into, well, a while and, like I said, about 1600 bucks at the monthly rate. You're right though. I should have shopped for the "a while" discount. SkepticDoc has hit the nail on the head. In my profile I said things like "solitude is not the same as loneliness." Does that say commitment to you? No one else thought so either, nor was that my intention. It was my intention to be honest rather than to appeal on false pretenses.

The best approach is to mingle personally with people with the same interests, intellectual, political, spiritual/religious, entertainment or sports. You'll have something in common and at least one can meet other people that can share in the enjoyment of life, Of course, it could turn out that the right person is the friend or relative of a friend! Just to quote Joseph Campbell: "follow your bliss"!

If you live around a large metropolitan area try meetup.com. It is activities based organization, no fee to join, meet in groups large to small and you get first hand exposure to all kinds of people.

For what it's worth, dating services aren't the only ones that use the Myers-Brigg test. My college made rising freshmen take the thing, and then used it and some other information to assign people their freshman year roommates.

Quoting graz: Giving-thanks to George and John. You all have provided a familiar and welcomed part of my web experience. In contrast to the dud(e) above, I want to shout out some gratitude for your forthright conveyance of the practical response to your personal trial.

George: I too loved Pieces of April. Katie Holmes before Tom Cruise... touching and truthful if a bit contrived.

Didn't know that was Katie Holmes. I saw it several years ago...very touching and well done. The woman who played the mom was priceless.

Quoting Ken Davis: I dated one local woman for ten days or so whom I found quite attractive physically. She is a bit odd, though, and claims to be able to see dead people walking around here and there, and to travel on the astral plane. She related to me the story of the demon who took the shape of a hag, and clung to the ceiling fan in her living room, rattling it and generally attempting to annoy. My erstwhile lady friend finally contacted paranormal experts who succeeded in driving the thing away.

All this wasn't enough to prompt me to break off our budding romance. What did the trick was being present at a poetry slam where she read her most recent love poems. Gaaak. She is a poet who, she blithely blurted, doesn't read poetry. That was the last evening I saw her. She decided that I hate women, and I was content to leave her with that impression, as long as she left me alone.

One would think...oh, never mind.

It seems like it would be simple matter to find someone with whom to spend time and exchange the occasional caress. I think of this need in

Quoting Don Zeko: For what it's worth, dating services aren't the only ones that use the Myers-Brigg test. My college made rising freshmen take the thing, and then used it and some other information to assign people their freshman year roommates.

It has penetrated much further than that. There is a whole consulting industry that has perpetuated the idea that this is an essential tool for corporations. I've worked for at least two companies that required its employees to go through a sort of 'self-awareness' training week involving the Myers-Brigg test. You can find a lot of surface-level information suggesting that the test has some usefulness in classifying people into broad personality types, but if you spend a little time researching it you'll see that it is pretty much free of any scientific validity. It seems to have taken on a life similar to that of the Rorschach Test.

Quoting spandrel: It has penetrated much further than that. There is a whole consulting industry that has perpetuated the idea that this is an essential tool for corporations. I've worked for at least two companies that required its employees to go through a sort of 'self-awareness' training week involving the Myers-Brigg test. You can find a lot of surface-level information suggesting that the test has some usefulness in classifying people into broad personality types, but if you spend a little time researching it you'll see that it is pretty much free of any scientific validity. It seems to have taken on a life similar to that of the Rorschach Test.

From an old Gladwell article:

Once, for fun, a friend and I devised our own personality test. Like the M.B.T.I., it has four dimensions. The first is Canine/Feline. In romantic relationships, are you the pursuer, who runs happily to the door, tail wagging? Or are you the pursued? The second is More/Different. Is it your intellectual style to gather and master as much information as you can or to make imaginative use of a discrete amount of information? The third is Insider/Outsider. Do you get

We should come up with our own BhTV set of dichotomies. How about that?

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp I came out intj

Quoting SkepticDoc: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

I came out intj

INFJ. Other people like me: John Bradshaw, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, John Calvin, Nicole Kidman

Quoting Ocean: INFJ. Other people like me:

John Bradshaw, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, John Calvin, Nicole Kidman

Also, defined as 'idealist' and 'counselor'. Who would think?

Quoting Ocean: Also, defined as 'idealist' and 'counselor'. Who would think?

I found more INFJ's: Mohandas Gandhi, Sidney Poitier, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jane Goodall, Emily Bronte, Sir Alec Guiness, Carl Jung, Mary Baker Eddy, Queen Noor are examples of the Counselor Idealist (INFJ). Also: Martin Luther King, Jr.!

Quoting claymisher: I'd quit any company that asked me to take one of these tests.

My phrasing was bad. I should not have used the word "required" as relates to the test. Typically, the way this would work is that employees with any level of management responsibility would be required to attend some informal group sessions (conducted of course by one of these HR consulting groups) to discuss employee-manager relations, techniques for effectively dealing with various personality types, etc. As part of his they would inevitably pull out the Myers-Briggs test as an exercise, but this was not something recorded or maintained by the company. Like you, most people just took it for the amusement factor (a few would take it a bit more seriously once they discovered their close affinity to the likes of Napolean and Einstein) but in my experience I never saw but perhaps a handful (literally 5 or fewer) that discovered any personality trait that they weren't already aware of. But of course this is anecdotal. But I do recall clearly that in each case the Myers-Briggs focus was quite central to the agenda rather than just being a

Quoting Ocean: I found more INFJ's: Mohandas Gandhi, Sidney Poitier, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jane Goodall, Emily Bronte, Sir Alec Guiness, Carl Jung, Mary Baker Eddy, Queen Noor are examples of the Counselor Idealist (INFJ).

Also: Martin Luther King, Jr.!

INTP. (Einstein, Pascal, Descartes, Newton, Socrates, Henry Mancini, Bob Newhart) And, by my reading, Carl Jung. (Is he being claimed by more than one camp?) I am (so) not worthy!

Quoting Ocean: INFJ. Other people like me:

John Bradshaw, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, John Calvin, Nicole Kidman

Interesting. The times I've taken the test over the years, I've always toggled between INFP and INFJ. Do you believe these tests are valid or meaningful in any way?

Quoting AemJeff: INTP. (Einstein, Pascal, Descartes, Newton, Socrates, Henry Mancini, Bob Newhart) And, by my reading, Carl Jung. (Is he being claimed by more than one camp?)

I am (so) not worthy!

Oh, don't say that! Very soon your name will be added to the list. And I think there are a couple of names that are being claimed by more that one type. I guess those people didn't really take the test or they lied! I wonder how Socrates managed to do it...

Quoting TwinSwords: Interesting. The times I've taken the test over the years, I've always toggled between INFP and INFJ.

Do you believe these tests are valid or meaningful in any way?

Meh. I liked the description of the idealist counselor though. It did sound on target.

Quoting SkepticDoc: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

I came out intj

Now I'm glad I didn't mention that INTJs are jerks! I'd be surprised if anybody on this board was "S", except whatfur.

I am totally Immanual Kant, William Shakespeare, Ludwig Beethoven, Pearl Buck and Arthur C. Clark. But you all already knew that

http://typelogic.com/intj.html This is just like a cocktail party conversation (does that comment make me judging?)! Another link: http://www.friesian.com/types.htm

Quoting willtato: a great bvlog. An ostensibly 'soft' subject for two scientists, who made it interesting and deep. Not to mention flat out funny at several points. George's quick sum-ups drily and sincerely delivered ex: "Excitable ? You don't want to be a chihuahua, your whole nervous system one big short circuit." Fabulous! Did he ad lib that ? He could write for Comedy Central!

Yeah, that chihuahua line was FTW.

Quoting osmium: [...] But there remains a strong sense that there are a finite number of 'people' in the world, and you meet them over and over. If there were 4 dimensions, there would be 16 types of people, and in 5 dimensions there would be 32. It doesn't seem inherently unreasonable. While there are (let's say) millions of factors determining a human's personality--some biochemical and some social--it could be that the complex system of interaction leads observable behavior to cluster into a small number of perceived groups. [...]

I think this says more about the overly developed human tendency to attempt to understand new things in terms of already known types, which, while not entirely wrong, does have to be guarded against.

Quoting TwinSwords: Interesting. The times I've taken the test over the years, I've always toggled between INFP and INFJ.

Do you believe these tests are valid or meaningful in any way?

I come out INFP (or at least I used to). In a broad sense I think they mean something--you can probably tell the difference between an E and I in real-world contact, and also probably get it with a test. Seems to me the part that's squishy is what the letters mean re: real behavior. And also how people answer questions--like, they seem too straightforward to me. Do people really know themselves so well? Or does the empirical nature of the test include how you see yourself and and interpret the questions, etc. I could see these issues being tackled in a scientific way. Of course that doesn't mean they always are, though.

Quoting claymisher: Now I'm glad I didn't mention that INTJs are jerks!

I'd be surprised if anybody on this board was "S", except whatfur.

I'm INTP or ENTP, depending on my mood when taking it (although I didn't just redo it, granted) -- I come close to the middle on that one. I don't believe that the test is meaningful (at least I agree with the distinction described by osmium just above), but it is interesting that whenever this topic comes up on the forums I've posted on, nearly everyone is an N. I suspect it has something to do with attraction to internet posting generally, although perhaps it's the specific sites.

TO those of you contemplating entering a dating service, I would suggest you only use the ones with large circulation of their brand name. I have noticed a few times, that X dating service may appear respectable on websites that are thought to cater to women, but use adds along the lines of "Come do our horney sluts" on websites that cater more to men.

We can look at loneliness as an illness... http://www.nhs.uk/news/2009/12Decemb...ontagious.aspx

Projection...John Horgan Style!!

Fellow ENFJ here. Pleasure to be in the same category as Horgan (and Me&theBoys too!).

eHarmony is run by religious wingnuts , so there is no surprise about their criteria. When I found this out canceled my direct debit as religious fundamentalism has more than enough ill gotten gains.

strangely enough, me too. (infp)

Here is the summary (so far): First the diavloggers: George----------------------------------INTJ
John------------------------------------ ENFJ Then the commenters (alphabetical order): AEMJeff----------------------------------INTP/INFP
bjkeefe----------------------------------ENTJ
johnatthebar----------------------------INTP
look-(not updated)----------------------INTJ
Me&theboys-----------------------------ENFJ
nikkibong--------------------------------ENFP
Ocean------------------------------------INFJ
Osmium----------------------------------INFP
Popcorn Karate---------------------------INFP
SkepticDoc-------------------------------INTJ
Stephanie--------------------------------INTP/ENTP
thprop------------------------------------ENTJ
Twinswords------------------------------INFP/INFJ
uncle ebeneezer-------------------------ENFJ
Unit--------------------------------------INFJ
Whatfur----------------------------------INTJ
Wonderment (alleged)------------------INFP The rest:---------------------------------INTH*
* (IN The Hiding)

Ahem...

uncle ebeneezer Re: Science Saturday: Looking for Love (John Horgan & George Johnson)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fellow ENFJ here. Pleasure to be in the same category as Horgan.

Quoting Ocean: Here is the summary (so far):

First the diavloggers:

George----------------------------------INTJ
John------------------------------------ ENFJ

Then the commenters (alphabetical order):

AEMJeff----------------------------------INTP
Ocean------------------------------------INFJ
Osmium----------------------------------INFP
Popcorn Karate---------------------------INFP
SkepticDoc-------------------------------INTJ
Stephanie--------------------------------INTP/ENTP
Twinswords------------------------------INFP/INFJ
Wonderment (alleged)------------------INFP

The rest:---------------------------------INTH*

* (IN The Hiding)

AFM (as for me): ENFP

Added! See edited comment.

Added too! See edited comment above.

Quoting Ocean: Here is the summary (so far):

According to that test, I'm an ENTJ, as long as you're collecting data.

# moderately expressed extravert
# moderately expressed intuitive personality
# moderately expressed thinking personality
# very expressed judging personality

Can't imagine how they got that last one. ;^) Also, I am like:

Napoleon, Franklin D. Roosevelt , Mark Anthony, Sean Connery, Madonna, Yulia Tymoshenko

and:

Hillary Clinton, Napoleon, Margret Thatcher, Carl Sagan, Bill Gates, Golda Meir, Edward Teller, George Benard Shaw, and General George C. Marshall are examples of Rational Fieldmarshals.

("Rational Fieldmarshal" sounds like the dorkiest web handle ever.) and:

Franklin D. Roosevelt, Richard M. Nixon, Lamar Alexander, Les Aspen, Candace Bergen, Jim Carrey, Rahm Emanuel, Harrison Ford, Newt Gingrich, Whoopi Goldberg, Benny Goodman, Al Gore, Penn Jillette, Steve Jobs, Dave Letterman, Steve Martin, Norman Schwarzkopf, Patrick Stewart, Margaret Thatcher, Robert James Waller, Sigourney Weaver

Napoleon and Madonna I can see, but Bill Gates and Steve Jobs?

We now know whose personality you have. Can you, more importantly, tell us whose looks?
PS: I'll add you to the list!

Quoting Ocean: We now know whose personality you have. Can you, more importantly, tell us whose looks?

As I hinted at before: a cross between Madonna and Napoleon. Okay, more like a cross between Newt Gingrich and Whoopi Goldberg.

I took the same test BJ took - and got the same result. Maybe we look like each other.

Your Type is
ENTJ
Extraverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
33 88 38 44

Qualitative analysis of your type formula

You are:

* moderately expressed extravert
* very expressed intuitive personality
* moderately expressed thinking personality
* moderately expressed judging personality

Quoting thprop: I took the same test BJ took - and got the same result. Maybe we look like each other.

Maybe you are one and the same! Almost. It looks like you are more intuitive and less judgmental. And spend less time in this forum. That's what your test shows... I'll add you to the list.

I think I'm going to take it again. It's also a good idea to get a second opinion.

Quoting bjkeefe: As I hinted at before: a cross between Madonna and Napoleon.

Okay, more like a cross between Newt Gingrich and Whoopi Goldberg.

WOW...! That's hot, baby.

INFJ here as well.

Quoting Unit: INFJ here as well.

Hi pal! Added.

Interesting results so far - everyone who has reported so far in iNtuitive, no Sensing. Accirding to the distribution tables in the Wikipedia article, only 26.3% of the population is iNtuitive.

Sensing and intuition are the information-gathering (perceiving) functions. They describe how new information is understood and interpreted. Individuals who prefer sensing are more likely to trust information that is in the present, tangible and concrete: that is, information that can be understood by the five senses. They tend to distrust hunches that seem to come out of nowhere. They prefer to look for details and facts. For them, the meaning is in the data. On the other hand, those who prefer intuition tend to trust information that is more abstract or theoretical, that can be associated with other information (either remembered or discovered by seeking a wider context or pattern). They may be more interested in future possibilities. They tend to trust those flashes of insight that seem to bubble up from the unconscious mind. The meaning is in how the data relates to the pattern or theory.

Also, mostly introverts - 10 of 13 (77%) vs 50.8% in the distribution tables. What does this say about the people

Quoting AemJeff: INTP. (Einstein, Pascal, Descartes, Newton, Socrates, Henry Mancini, Bob Newhart) And, by my reading, Carl Jung. (Is he being claimed by more than one camp?)

I am (so) not worthy!

This is the first time this has ever happened; but in the interest of scientific accuracy: Your Type is INFP Introverted 67%
Intuitive 75%
Feeling 12%
Perceiving 33%

Quoting AemJeff: This is the first time this has ever happened; but in the interest of scientific accuracy:

Your Type is INFP

Introverted 67%
Intuitive 75%
Feeling 12%
Perceiving 33%

What happened? You warmed up? Just kidding, but what should I do? Change it in the list or add it as a second possibility?

Quoting Ocean: What happened? You warmed up?

Just kidding, but what should I do? Change it in the list or add it as a second possibility?

It's borderline - the preference is only 12%, and it's the first time I've ever seen that result. Maybe I'm just in a good mood? I guess I'm in the slash brigade.

Quoting AemJeff: It's borderline - the preference is only 12%, and it's the first time I've ever seen that result. Maybe I'm just in a good mood? I guess I'm in the slash brigade.

Very well, I'll make it so.

Quoting thprop: Interesting results so far - everyone who has reported so far in iNtuitive, no Sensing. Accirding to the distribution tables in the Wikipedia article, only 26.3% of the population is iNtuitive.

Also, mostly introverts - 10 of 13 (77%) vs 50.8% in the distribution tables. What does this say about the people who comment on BHtv?

We're a bunch of non-representative introverts who think big.

Quoting Ocean: Hi pal!

Added.

I hated having to choose between 'yes' and 'no'. Most of the time I wanted to answer 'yes but...' or 'no however...'

Quoting Unit: I hated having to choose between 'yes' and 'no'. Most of the time I wanted to answer 'yes but...' or 'no however...'

My feeling exactly, on probably a good quarter of those questions.

Quoting bjkeefe: My feeling exactly, on probably a good quarter of those questions.

Same thing, and also "It depends..." But that belongs to a different classification of personality styles...

Quoting Ocean: Here is the summary (so far):

First the diavloggers:

George----------------------------------INTJ
John------------------------------------ ENFJ

Then the commenters (alphabetical order):

AEMJeff----------------------------------INTP/INFP
bjkeefe----------------------------------ENTJ
nikkibong--------------------------------ENFP
Ocean------------------------------------INFJ
Osmium----------------------------------INFP
Popcorn Karate---------------------------INFP
SkepticDoc-------------------------------INTJ
Stephanie--------------------------------INTP/ENTP
thprop------------------------------------ENTJ
Twinswords------------------------------INFP/INFJ
uncle ebeneezer-------------------------ENFJ
Unit--------------------------------------INFJ
Wonderment (alleged)------------------INFP

The rest:---------------------------------INTH*

* (IN The Hiding)

ENFJ here. More N and J than E and F. Used to be an ENTJ when I was younger. I guess kids and life made me more of an F than a T. Really am an I in disguise as an E - being an E is exhausting. Or maybe I'm just an IENFTJ.

Quoting Me&theboys: ENFJ here. More N and J than E and F. Used to be an ENTJ when I was younger. I guess kids and life made me more of an F than a T. Really am an I in disguise as an E - being an E is exhausting. Or maybe I'm just an IENFTJ.

Added to the list, but only the most recent version of you...

Quoting thprop: Interesting results so far - everyone who has reported so far in iNtuitive, no Sensing. Accirding to the distribution tables in the Wikipedia article, only 26.3% of the population is iNtuitive.
Also, mostly introverts - 10 of 13 (77%) vs 50.8% in the distribution tables. What does this say about the people who comment on BHtv?

That's a question only an N would ask!

Quoting Me&theboys: That's a question only an N would ask!

Just to make his day... I matched Skeptic Doc. (Sorry claymisher, I can retake it if bothers you.)

Quoting Whatfur: Just to make his day...

I matched Skeptic Doc. (Sorry claymisher, I can retake it if bothers you.)

So do I, as of about 20 years ago...I just don't feel like going through the BS of taking it again.

Added to the list.

Added too.

Quoting Ocean: Added too.

Thx.

What I found interesting was that I had changed. The younger Wonderment would definitely have had a different personality, which seems to contradict conventional wisdom about personality being fixed by age 5 or so. I'm less judgmental and less introverted than I used to be, at least judging by the type of question the test asks. A more subtle instrument, I suspect, would probably reveal that "deep down inside" I haven't changed much, but that would probably defeat the purpose of the test, which is to predict how I'll behave in the future workplace, dorm room, marriage or retirement home

Quoting Wonderment: What I found interesting was that I had changed. The younger Wonderment would definitely have had a different personality, which seems to contradict conventional wisdom about personality being fixed by age 5 or so.

I'm less judgmental and less introverted than I used to be, at least judging by the type of question the test asks.

A more subtle instrument, I suspect, would probably reveal that "deep down inside" I haven't changed much, but that would probably defeat the purpose of the test, which is to predict how I'll behave in the future workplace, dorm room, marriage or retirement home

It is easy to understand that people a different times in their lives may answer the test questions differently. Although the test targets some general personality types, some of those dimensions may be variable and not fixed. For example, children develop concrete thinking first, and abstract thinking comes later. The other dimensions also may change, even fluctuate, over time. If you were to take a complete test, with many more questions, it may pick up more stable traits. We would have to ask a psychologist.

For the record, 1. I'm a long-term INTP.
2. Loved "Pieces of April" and the pre-TC, Katie Holmes.
3. I'm always happy to listen to John and George banter on most any topic, including science.
4. Their "Dinner with Andre" performances should be weekly.
5. Yes, the "short circuited" chihuahua imagery was too perfect.

I'm INTP. Jesus, that's a lot of N's. I wonder if it's a reflection of Internet users, BHTV viewers or commenters. My heart goes out to John (and Suzie). John is visibly sad through a lot of this diavlog, at least early on. Heartbreaking.

Added.

Personality change and anti-depressant meds. What if everyone became an extrovert in the Brave New World?

Quoting Wonderment: Personality change and anti-depressant meds. What if everyone became an extrovert in the Brave New World?

Hey, interesting article. But of course, if you ask Horgan, he would say "Antidepressants don't work!". If you ask fellow commenter T.G.G.P, he'll say: "psychiatrist's medicine is snake-oil" (although we don't kill as many people as our colleagues...). If you ask me, I'll say "Why not?" For technical accuracy, this "extroversion" isn't the same as the Myers Briggs. The personality tests used in psychiatric research are derived from the MMPI. Here is a description.

Quoting Ocean: For example, children develop concrete thinking first, and abstract thinking comes later.

Well, bless Jean Piaget. Since taking developmental psych I have thought the course should be required for every college student, or perhaps for every high school student.

If you ask me, I'll say "Why not?"

Pásame el paxil, por favor.

Quoting Wonderment: Pásame el paxil, por favor.

No te entusiasmes tan rápido. También tiene sus efectos colaterales...

Found this on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drUN...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKOeFqzGUpk&NR=1 From the NYT- Liber Novus Do others see the connections between our discussions of God, "the mind", mindfulness meditation and other topics?

Quoting SkepticDoc: Found this on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drUN...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKOeFqzGUpk&NR=1

From the NYT- Liber Novus

Do others see the connections between our discussions of God, "the mind", mindfulness meditation and other topics?

I think you should connect the dots for us.

I would have to be laying in the leather couch... Or sitting on a zafu

Quoting SkepticDoc: I would have to be laying in the leather couch...

Or sitting on a zafu

You can lie or sit on whatever you want. Just report on it afterwords.

diavlog?

Quoting SkepticDoc: diavlog?

Maybe. Your topic.

Jung, I'll be the little grasshopper student!

Quoting SkepticDoc: Jung, I'll be the little grasshopper student!

I barely know anything about Jung, so drop your grasshopper attitude.

Maybe somebody can recruit/enroll some Jungian therapist to go on the main site, by the responses, there is genuine interest in the topic! There has to be somebody in the Big Apple that can indulge us! http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...sq=jung&st=cse Maybe BhTv can contact Ellen Ladowsky?

Here is an interesting article for the "Looking for Love in Midlife" crowd. The article is directed to women, but I can imagine some men may be interested in knowing what kind of craziness can go through a woman's head. We all know already what kind of craziness goes through a man's head...

Quoting Ocean: We all know already what kind of craziness goes through a man's head...

By "we" I assume you mean only other women, because if there's one thing men sure as hell don't know, it's what's going through their own heads. Unless we're talking about the littler one.

Quoting bjkeefe: Unless we're talking about the littler one.

Yes.