March 17, 2010





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Baltimoron wrote on 01/16/2010  at  10:12 PM
Re: Google Vs. China (Evgeny Morozov & Siva Vaidhyanathan)
Thanks to both 'heads for a nuanced and entertaining diavlog!
I don't think it's enough just to admit that security and expression are not absolutes opposed to each other. Google has given the Obama administration the opportunity to articulate a western take on security and expression that is not China's. I was concerned this week after the Haiti crisis, and when Clinton and Gates returned from Asia, that regional powers would view it as a sign of America's retrenchment - and tacit recognition of China's growing power - from the region. There's been some talk of a regional FTA or currency union - I think it's pie in the sky. But the Obama administration has to give the region a vision of economics and security that takes into account human rights and Asia's economic surge.
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bjkeefe wrote on 01/17/2010  at  11:16 AM
Re: Google Vs. China (Evgeny Morozov & Siva Vaidhyanathan)
I'll second Balt's thanks to Evgeny and Siva, and also thank the Bh.tv booker who arranged for this diavlog in such a timely manner.
While I found this conversation overwhelmingly helpful, I would raise just one minor quibble about the unceasing cynicism E&S directed at Google. Perhaps I am naive, perhaps I just would like to believe in the concept of a company that truly tries to live up to the Don't be evil mantra, and I am willing to concede a lot of that. However, I don't think it is fair to say, without any evidence, that Google only cares about finding a face-saving way out of its situation in China, or that they only care about about how much money they can make, or that they only talk about free speech to get the attention of Sec. Clinton, or that they only think about how to deal with the world in terms of algorithms that can be typed in from the comfort of their cubicles. In addition to being a corporate entity that is now large enough to be infected with suits, Google is also a large collection of very smart
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bjkeefe wrote on 01/17/2010  at  11:48 AM
Some links
Quoting bjkeefe: I think Google deserves at least a little benefit of the doubt.
Following up on this, some of you might be interested in watching the interview David Drummond (Google's SVP, Corporate Development and Chief Legal Officer) did soon after the news broke. You'll have to put up with Shouty Kudlow, but it's worth it, IMO.
Also note the diavlog's sidebar link to Drummond's blog post, repeated here.
Also, I can't help but have this line keep running through my mind, ever since I read the article:
“How am I going to live without Google?” asked Wang Yuanyuan, a 29-year-old businessman, as he left a convenience store in Beijing’s business district.
It's worth remembering that revolutions are rarely led by peasants bearing pitchforks and torches. It is "the elites" who most often force change, even in totalitarian societies. I'm not betting on an actual revolution in China, mind, nor do I think I even want one, but a good push in the right direction would be nice to see.
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JonIrenicus wrote on 01/19/2010  at  04:25 AM
Re: Google Vs. China (Evgeny Morozov & Siva Vaidhyanathan)
Just watched this, but the idea that what got google so pissed off recently was the affront to free speech seems like nonsense to me. If they were so concerned they would not have waded in there in the first place.

This was about calling the chinese government out for their wanton attacks on security. Maybe to try to shame them on the world stage into behaving better.




uncle ebeneezer: We know how you feel, Mike! 

bjkeefe: Hear, hear! 

uncle ebeneezer: What does it really mean? 

uncle ebeneezer: Is Tom purposely trying to steer interest away from his profession? 

themightypuck: Bob the Baptist comes out. 

uncle ebeneezer: Will formulates a scenario where the terrorists, literally, win! 

sapeye: Hmmm, is Bob guilty of serious stereotyping? 

Stapler Malone: No, Bob. It’s not. Nothing ever is.  

d7greene: Lawrence Lessig knows a juice-boxer when he sees one. 

Toryentalist: Matt is great, Matt is great—listen and repeat. 

thouartgob: Joel’s elegant refutation of Bob’s point. 

uncle ebeneezer: George Johnson, hopeless romantic! 

themightypuck: Robert Wright, Asteroid Cowboy. 

bjkeefe: Spelling is fun-damental! 

nikkibong: The joy of taking stuff out of context. 

bjkeefe: Who stole Matthew’s tie? 

uncle ebeneezer: The Art of Subtlety. 

bjkeefe: Heather slaps the entire BhTV community. 

bjkeefe: Can anyone find a case where this is not ultimately Mickey's advice to Dems? 

Ken Davis: The racial blind taste test. 

Stapler Malone: Go forward, not backward; upward not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.... 

Simon Willard: Bob steps outside himself here. 

JonIrenicus: Puzzle spelled out. 

uncle ebeneezer: George's response here was absolutely priceless. 

graz: Bob takes Tom Jones down a peg. 

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