March 14, 2010





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Starwatcher162536 wrote on 01/23/2010  at  07:52 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Maybe I am a callous bastard, but I didn't see much wrong with Brooks post, so long as he can back up his assertions. Which he should do in the future.
One more point. I can't find supporting evidence anywhere, so maybe this is just an urban myth, but I have been told that areas with a low frequency of earthquakes will have less fragmented bedrock then places with a higher frequency of earthquakes, which will lead to the low frequency places having greater surface displacements then areas with a high frequency. So while the gist of Brook's argument (poor building standards in Haiti and good building standards in California is the cause of the discrepancies in how much each party is hurt by equivalent earthquakes) is correct, it is not the whole story.
Another reason I am hesitant to place the blame on poverty, is I would imagine even a poor country will build it's presidential palace well...and look at how much it was trashed...
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=4784 (2nd post)
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ohreally wrote on 01/23/2010  at  09:00 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
To call David Brooks callous is like calling David Duke insensitive. Brooks is a plain old-fashioned racist. Notice how the unctuous Brooks and the glib flat-earther Friedman never miss a chance to educate their readers about "the inferior tribes"? The masters of politically correct bigotry. Brooks was the guy who equated a dislike of neoconservatism with anti-Semitism. The oily hack moonlights as a racism expert, I guess.
By definition, of course, Times columnists can't be racist (just as US presidents can't lie).
Got to love Brooks's nod to the bigoted, pseudo-scientific Sam Huntington though. I mean, where else to turn to?
starwatcher: Please let us know when "Brooks backs up his assertions." Or for that matter when David Duke backs up his. Maybe both can borrow from Huntington's bogus math. Could be fun.
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Baltimoron wrote on 01/23/2010  at  10:12 PM
"How Does It Smell, Soldier!"
(Who said and in what movie were those words - or something very similar - uttered?)
The Haiti operations are just smelling bad. I have to plug a fellow alumnus, indie publisher, and chef on Haiti - and other stuff:
http://presstv.com/programs/detail.a...=116519#116519
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bjkeefe wrote on 01/23/2010  at  10:14 PM
Wait a minute.
Important question here: Who stole Matthew's tie?
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bjkeefe wrote on 01/23/2010  at  11:32 PM
On a more serious note ...
... these two are really finding each other's rhythm, and are becoming ever more enjoyable to listen to. (With the distraction of small vulcanologists, no less!)
And thanks as always to Matthew for digging. You're absolutely right, Matthew: these slimy nepotistic dealings need not prevent the UN from doing good work -- the specific individuals at the UN just have to stop feathering their own nests. And the only way they're going to do it is if you and people like you keep exposing them.
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look wrote on 01/24/2010  at  01:23 AM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Thank you Matt and Jackie, you two really know your stuff. I'm sorry to say, though, that I was distracted by the frequent interrupting of each other.
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Francoamerican wrote on 01/24/2010  at  04:43 AM
Re: The Monroe doctrine
I'm not sure Haitians would be very pleased to hear the US invoking the Monroe doctrine to justify their humanitarian intervention. If I'm not mistaken, it was invoked several times in the 20th century to justify military interventions.
That said, both the US and France owe Haiti more than humanitarian aid. Both countries bear some responsibility for the poverty and backwardness of Haiti. How much? Former president Aristide demanded 20 billion euros from France...
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EvanHarper wrote on 01/24/2010  at  07:58 AM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting Starwatcher162536: Maybe I am a callous bastard, but I didn't see much wrong with Brooks post, so long as he can back up his assertions. Which he should do in the future.
I agree that some of the outrage over Brooks sort of misses the point, in that it (accurately) calls him chauvinistic and borderline racist, but does not explain why he's actually wrong.
The problem is that cultural-determinist explanations of uneven economic development work a hell of a lot better as after-the-fact rationalizations than they do as predictions. Today everyone thinks (at least in a lazy, reflexive way) that Koreans as industrious, intellectual folks, and Filipinos are indolent layabouts. And a cultural-determinist view would cite this as an explanation of Korea's superior economic development.
But sixty years ago, everyone thought of Koreans as hopelessly backward semi-savages, and Filipinos as relatively advanced. South Korea was comparable in development to the poorest countries in sub-Saharan Africa, while the Philippines were maybe the most economically promising country in Asia. Korea was 90% illiterate in 1945, dominated by a notoriously insular Buddhist-Confucian culture, while the Philippines had been substantially remade in the Spanish, and American cultural image. And these facts were cited
read more . . .
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bjkeefe wrote on 01/24/2010  at  10:32 AM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting EvanHarper: If you go back further, you can find similar claims about the backward culture made for pretty much every country that has since developed successfully - Germany, Finland, and so on.
Not to mention the US.
Excellent post.
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ohreally wrote on 01/24/2010  at  11:08 AM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Brooks writes:
"We’re all supposed to politely respect each other’s cultures but... a horrible tragedy was just exacerbated by one of them."
If Brooks had gone on to explain why the Holocaust was exacerbated by the culture of Judaism, a religion "which spreads the message that life is capricious and planning futile," no doubt bloggingheads commenters would have demanded that "Brooks "back up his assertions" and his detractors "explain why he is wrong."
Sweet.
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harkin wrote on 01/24/2010  at  12:17 PM
Re: The Monroe doctrine
Missing amongst the links was an excellent article in ABC News recently about UN corruption and the scaling back of enforcement:
UN Cuts Back on Investigating Fraud
"The world body was rocked in the past decade when more than 2,200 companies from some 40 countries colluded with Saddam Hussein's regime to bilk $1.8 billion from a U.N.-administered oil-for-food program for Iraqi humanitarian relief.
In response, it established a special anti-corruption unit, the Procurement Task Force, in 2006 that over the next three years uncovered at least 20 other major schemes affecting more than $1 billion in U.N. contracts and international aid.
But at the beginning of 2009, the United Nations shuttered the agency and diverted its work to the Office of Internal Oversight Services' permanent investigation division."
Since then, the number of cases opened, pursued or completed has dropped dramatically and the division has let go most former task force investigators, the AP found in an examination of U.N. documents, audits and e-mails, along with dozens of interviews with current and former U.N. officials and diplomats."
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harkin wrote on 01/24/2010  at  12:28 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting ohreally: To call David Brooks callous is like calling David Duke insensitive. Brooks is a plain old-fashioned racist. Notice how the unctuous Brooks and the glib flat-earther Friedman never miss a chance to educate their readers about "the inferior tribes"? The masters of politically correct bigotry.
Quoting ohreally: If Brooks had gone on to explain why the Holocaust was exacerbated by the culture of Judaism, a religion "which spreads the message that life is capricious and planning futile," no doubt bloggingheads commenters would have demanded that "Brooks "back up his assertions" and his detractors "explain why he is wrong."
I read the Brooks column twice and I failed to find any references to race. If you're truly equating the culture of european jewry in the early twentieth century to that of current-day Haiti in regards to respect for education, the solidarity of the family unit and targeting achievement, then you need to brush up on your reading. To negate the cultural differences between these two groups is to force the differences to lie elsewhere, which makes you the racist. Do you think there were many jews in europe in
read more . . .
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nikkibong wrote on 01/24/2010  at  01:30 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
I love Matthew Lee.
A combination of repertorial enterprise and a real (moral) fire in his belly..
one of BHTV's best.
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ohreally wrote on 01/24/2010  at  02:58 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
So harkin read Brooks not once but twice and spotted no reference to race. So that settles it. The same harkin no doubt could read about evil bankers and greedy Hollywood elites and never ever spot a trace of anti-Semitism. Hey it never said "Jews." On the other hand, harkin attributes to me a comment I attributed, rhetorically, to Brooks, so perhaps harkin needs to brush up on basic reading skills.
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AemJeff wrote on 01/24/2010  at  03:22 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting ohreally: So harkin read Brooks not once but twice and spotted no reference to race. So that settles it. The same harkin no doubt could read about evil bankers and greedy Hollywood elites and never ever spot a trace of anti-Semitism. Hey it never said "Jews." On the other hand, harkin attributes to me a comment I attributed, rhetorically, to Brooks, so perhaps harkin needs to brush up on basic reading skills.
You should see what happens when he reads Michelle Malkin!
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spandrel wrote on 01/24/2010  at  05:26 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
I agree for the most part that Brooks' column displayed a degree of callousness but not necessarily that his overall claim was wide of the mark. My agreement aligns more with Shire's initial reactions to the overall tone of the article in the midst of such a horrendous disaster. Were Brooks to have managed to write a fuller and more substantive analysis of Haiti's economic problems, it still would have been a piece I would have thought better shelved for a few months.
Nonetheless, I think Brooks' central claim deserves better consideration even though I strongly disagree with his conclusion. From my perspective Brooks was first making a descriptive claim that cultural considerations often play a substantial role in a country's economic development and that massive aid programs are often not good predictors of success. But I think the real problem for many is what Brooks is saying by putting these together: injecting larger and larger sums of money into any given country regardless of its cultural makeup has proven unsuccessful (his real claim is stronger: that it actually has a negative effect). The claim may be
read more . . .
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harkin wrote on 01/24/2010  at  06:29 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting ohreally: So harkin read Brooks not once but twice and spotted no reference to race. So that settles it. The same harkin no doubt could read about evil bankers and greedy Hollywood elites and never ever spot a trace of anti-Semitism. Hey it never said "Jews." On the other hand, harkin attributes to me a comment I attributed, rhetorically, to Brooks, so perhaps harkin needs to brush up on basic reading skills.
Quoting ohreally: Brooks is a plain old-fashioned racist
You made a statement that was not only wrong but idiotic. You folllowed that with an comparison/analogy that bordered on insanity. Blaming me for pointing it out just makes you look more foolish. By insisting that cultural impedence to good governance can be overcome and that the people of Haiti can reverse decades of incompetence by insisting on excellence seems to me to be the exact opposite of racism. Brookes even backed this up with examples of where this action has worked. If you can't see this and just wish to scream racism where non exists and demand more dollars with no solutions at avoiding the same problems in
read more . . .
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AemJeff wrote on 01/24/2010  at  07:25 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting harkin: ...
No substance at all, just another in a long history of getting my sources wrong. Nice.
Here's some more quotes from recent news stories that may interest you, see if you can guess my sources:
"The chairman of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), has used bogus claims that Himalayan glaciers were melting to win grants worth hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Rajendra Pachauri's Energy and Resources Institute (TERI), based in New Delhi, was awarded up to £310,000 by the Carnegie Corporation of New York and the lion's share of a £2.5m EU grant funded by European taxpayers."
and
"The scientist behind the bogus claim in a Nobel Prize-winning UN report that Himalayan glaciers will have melted by 2035 last night admitted it was included purely to put political pressure on world leaders.
Dr Murari Lal also said he was well aware the statement, in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), did not rest on peer-reviewed scientific research.
In an interview with [news source] on Sunday, Dr Lal, the co-ordinating lead author of the report’s chapter on Asia, said: ‘It related to several countries in this region and their
read more . . .
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ohreally wrote on 01/24/2010  at  10:08 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Harkin writes: "the people of Haiti can reverse decades of incompetence by insisting on excellence" What a touching thought. I guess that's it. We failed to insist on excellence.
So the people of Haiti can reverse decades of incompetence. Now can they also reverse the two decades of brutal US military occupation? Can they reverse the refusal of the US to build any sort of democratic institutions. Can they reverse the US support for the Duvaliers and every single Haitian dictator? Can they reverse US punishment for "freeing the slaves"? Can they reverse the billions of dollars paid to France as "reparations"? Can they reverse the US neoliberal policies that have decimated all the forests? Can they reverse Cordell Hull's calling Trujillo one of the greatest men in Central America after he had slaughtered tens of thousands of Haitians?
How do they reverse all that? Where's Brooks on that?
But, no, let's blame voodoo and Haiti's culture, instead. When history points an accusing finger at us, best to talk about culture, shall we?
Haiti's curse is that it's had to deal with the patronizing, condescending crap of racist doofuses like harkin and Brooks who have not the slightest clue
read more . . .
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harkin wrote on 01/24/2010  at  11:05 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting ohreally: I guess that's it. We failed to insist on excellence......
I take it you've never been a teacher or even a tutor, if you were you'd realize how stupid this statement is. To insist on excellence is the only way to get people to reach their potential, which is never attained by giving them handouts instead of showing them the power within themselves.
Quoting ohreally: So the people of Haiti can reverse decades of incompetence. Now can they also reverse the two decades of brutal US military occupation? Can they reverse the refusal of the US to build any sort of democratic institutions. .......................blah blah blah blah blah
As AemJeff would say, read the entire article. You completely ignored the successes of Barbados and the Dominican Republic, countries with equivilant troubles who have not suffered the same fate.
You ignore facts to suit your demonization of the US. Sorry but you're wrong.

Quoting AemJeff: Feh. I made a joke that alluded to your denial and/or tolerance of crypto-racists, as long as they satisfy your need for a rightward tilt in their outlook.
My goodness - you're almost as good as Newsweek's Howard Fineman at spotting racism. Just this past week
read more . . .
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bjkeefe wrote on 01/24/2010  at  11:21 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting Starwatcher162536: Maybe I am a callous bastard, but I didn't see much wrong with Brooks post ...
Maybe a couple of other callous bastards can help? See Matt Taibbi (via) and Doghouse Riley.
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AemJeff wrote on 01/24/2010  at  11:28 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting harkin: I take it you've never been a teacher or even a tutor, if you were you'd realize how stupid this statement is. To insist on excellence is the only way to get people to reach their potential, which is never attained by giving them handouts instead of showing them the power within themselves.
As AemJeff would say, read the entire article. You completely ignored the successes of Barbados and the Dominican Republic, countries with equivilant troubles who have not suffered the same fate.
You ignore facts to suit your demonization of the US. Sorry but you're wrong.

My goodness - you're almost as good as Newsweek's Howard Fineman at spotting racism. Just this past week he told Keith 'anybody who disagrees with Obama is a racist' Olbermann that Scott Brown's pickup truck was a coded symbol of racism:
“In some places, there are codes, there are images, you know, there are pickup trucks, you could say there was a racial aspect to it one way or another.”
Mark Steyn had the best reply to that idiocy:
"Ah, yes. Scott Brown has over 200,000 miles on his odometer. Man, he’s racked up a lot of coded racism on
read more . . .
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spandrel wrote on 01/24/2010  at  11:45 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting ohreally: Haiti's curse is that it's had to deal with the patronizing, condescending crap of racist doofuses like harkin and Brooks who have not the slightest clue about history. That's Haiti's problem.
I would argue that your "analyses" does little more than support Harkin's argument. Granting that your analysis does manage to advance beyond simply blaming Haiti's current economic conditions on "racist doofuses" by outlining a few very significant historic events, it succeeds only to the extent that it completely ignores any historical context and, more importantly and ironically in the context of this discussion, cultural influences. But even if one were to grant that your outline were an accurate summary of the real and absolute determinates to Haitian economic development, which they are not, it fails to advance your position beyond where we are now, unless of course you truly believe that the issue is simply a matter of larger monetary infusions.
But on the cultural issues that you wish to ignore, I'd suggest that you research a bit further into the histories of the American, French, and Haitian revolutions and the model upon which the Haitian revolution
read more . . .
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piscivorous wrote on 01/25/2010  at  12:14 AM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
I too have thought Kucinich was a bit of a whack job, given his way far left credentials, but to believe that a majority of the country lies to his left, as you and the Democratic leadership now proposes, makes him look almost balanced in comparison. Of course the good Professor Green of Hofstra University has his back. Professor Green's liberal credentials are unchallengeable
American Betrayal, or at least they used to be How to Squander the Presidency in One Year. Gotta go and get some more butter as I can't have popcorn without it.
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grits-n-gravy wrote on 01/25/2010  at  12:20 AM
Re: The Monroe doctrine
Quoting Francoamerican: I'm not sure Haitians would be very pleased to hear the US invoking the Monroe doctrine to justify their humanitarian intervention. If I'm not mistaken, it was invoked several times in the 20th century to justify military interventions.
That said, both the US and France owe Haiti more than humanitarian aid. Both countries bear some responsibility for the poverty and backwardness of Haiti. How much? Former president Aristide demanded 20 billion euros from France...
20 billion plus damages is where I would start counting
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look wrote on 01/25/2010  at  01:54 AM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting piscivorous: I too have thought Kucinich was a bit of a whack job, given his way far left credentials, but to believe that a majority of the country lies to his left, as you and the Democratic leadership now proposes, makes him look almost balanced in comparison. Of course the good Professor Green of Hofstra University has his back. Professor Green's liberal credentials are unchallengeable
American Betrayal, or at least they used to be How to Squander the Presidency in One Year. Gotta go and get some more butter as I can't have popcorn without it.
The American Betrayal article is from 2007. Did you have it bookmarked?
It would be easy to cast the blame for our present predicament on a single ideological movement, or even a single generation, and it would not be wholly inaccurate to do so. The contemporary regressive right is without question a vicious cancer that has invaded the body politic to devastating consequences. Its predations were immensely facilitated by the self-reverential concerns of the Baby Boomers, who not for nothing were once called the Me Generation (that�s capital M, capital G, if you don�t mind). Rest
read more . . .
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Francoamerican wrote on 01/25/2010  at  05:20 AM
Re: The Monroe doctrine
Quoting grits-n-gravy: 20 billion plus damages is where I would start counting
Keep counting. But I wouldn't count on it. And while you're counting, how much should the US pay?
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piscivorous wrote on 01/25/2010  at  10:17 AM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
No read the other, which I was thinking of using, and then ran across it researching who this guy was.
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grits-n-gravy wrote on 01/25/2010  at  12:18 PM
Re: The Monroe doctrine
Quoting Francoamerican: Keep counting. But I wouldn't count on it. And while you're counting, how much should the US pay?
Oh, I don't know. How much is the Louisiana territory worth today?
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look wrote on 01/25/2010  at  04:50 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting piscivorous: No read the other, which I was thinking of using, and then ran across it researching who this guy was.
Thanks, it was a good read.
(Also, it's silly to lump all boomers together, as you have the, basically, pre-TV, pre-space race section versus those with much more saturation.)
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harkin wrote on 01/30/2010  at  04:52 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Shorter AemJeff:
"You have me dead to rights on [one] thing - I think the citizens of Massachusetts are deluded saps with a bad understanding of democracy."
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bjkeefe wrote on 01/30/2010  at  04:53 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting harkin: Shorter AemJeff: [...]
If you're going to do a Shorter, you have to play fair and link to the post you're shortering.
[Added] Although, assuming it's this one, I can see why you were afraid to.
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AemJeff wrote on 01/30/2010  at  04:56 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting harkin: Shorter AemJeff:
"You have me dead to rights on [one] thing - I think the citizens of Massachusetts are deluded saps with a bad understanding of democracy."
I don't think you quite get this "shorter" thing... Dropping a few words and eliding the original sense of what you're characterizing doesn't really quite achieve that aim.
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bjkeefe wrote on 01/30/2010  at  04:57 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting AemJeff: I don't think you quite get this "shorter" thing... Dropping a few words and eliding the original sense of what you're characterizing doesn't really quite achieve that aim.
Perhaps this was central to harkin's point.
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AemJeff wrote on 01/30/2010  at  05:01 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting bjkeefe: Perhaps this was central to harkin's point.
Hah! We honor all mangled internet memes equally.
View Thread Post Comment
PreppyMcPrepperson wrote on 02/12/2010  at  08:14 PM
Re: UN Plaza: Hand Washing Edition (Matthew Lee & Jacqueline Shire)
Quoting nikkibong: I love Matthew Lee.
A combination of repertorial enterprise and a real (moral) fire in his belly..
one of BHTV's best.
And super nice to boot.




uncle ebeneezer: What does it really mean? 

uncle ebeneezer: Is Tom purposely trying to steer interest away from his profession? 

themightypuck: Bob the Baptist comes out. 

uncle ebeneezer: Will formulates a scenario where the terrorists, literally, win! 

sapeye: Hmmm, is Bob guilty of serious stereotyping? 

Stapler Malone: No, Bob. It’s not. Nothing ever is.  

d7greene: Lawrence Lessig knows a juice-boxer when he sees one. 

Toryentalist: Matt is great, Matt is great—listen and repeat. 

thouartgob: Joel’s elegant refutation of Bob’s point. 

uncle ebeneezer: George Johnson, hopeless romantic! 

themightypuck: Robert Wright, Asteroid Cowboy. 

bjkeefe: Spelling is fun-damental! 

nikkibong: The joy of taking stuff out of context. 

bjkeefe: Who stole Matthew’s tie? 

uncle ebeneezer: The Art of Subtlety. 

bjkeefe: Heather slaps the entire BhTV community. 

bjkeefe: Can anyone find a case where this is not ultimately Mickey's advice to Dems? 

Ken Davis: The racial blind taste test. 

Stapler Malone: Go forward, not backward; upward not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.... 

Simon Willard: Bob steps outside himself here. 

JonIrenicus: Puzzle spelled out. 

uncle ebeneezer: George's response here was absolutely priceless. 

graz: Bob takes Tom Jones down a peg. 

bjkeefe: Entry for a video dictionary: "unflappable." 

almostaquantum: Hooray: Jonah Goldberg dismisses the ticking time-bomb scenario. 

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